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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 14:03:49
I really thought this many times in the past, but my second husband even my first, neither one of them likes or trusts women.
My father is a secret misogynist. I never thought I'd marry someone like dear old Dad, but I did .. twice.
I feel like shite. Absolute shite. And I understand the springtime depression, wish I didn't my meds are simply not enough. I've lost something, in the last few days, something that was important to me and valuable. It's not a physical item, it's intangible and I don't know how to bring it back.
Posted by sunny10 on April 28, 2005, at 14:18:47
In reply to Horrible Day, Please let me whine, posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 14:03:49
I'm not sure about you, but my allergies are making me miserable and a bit down... can you take over the counter allergy medicine?
It may help alleviate some of the springtime woes.. and for the rest; never fear, Babblefriends are near!! (picture many people all around the world wearing blue shirts with a giant red B on the front, puffing out our chests with our chins in the air...like Superman, get it?!?!)
My allergy meds are making ME a bit loopy it seems... but seriously, we ARE here for you...
Please feel free to whine away!
Posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 14:21:14
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine, posted by sunny10 on April 28, 2005, at 14:18:47
I don't have those types of allergies. Just skin-related ones. I am just in a bit of emotional trouble. You know.
Posted by partlycloudy on April 28, 2005, at 17:56:10
In reply to Horrible Day, Please let me whine, posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 14:03:49
Whining encouraged, my dear. No need to hold back. Let all the hurt out.
pc
Posted by damos on April 28, 2005, at 21:26:58
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine, posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 14:21:14
Don't you just hate it when the bus pulls into Sucksville for no apparent reason. Been stuck there for a few days now (okay a week and a bit), just hoping to get the next Greyhound out.
Nothing to do here, nowhere to go, just round and round and round.
You know what would be nice right now? To take you by the hand and go out onto the street, find ourselves a streetlight and dance beneath it cheek to cheek to our own internal music, and for that moment to be all that there is.
You'd need to wear steel capped boots though cause Fred Astaire I aint.
Lots a love Suze,
Posted by Susan47 on April 29, 2005, at 11:19:24
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by damos on April 28, 2005, at 21:26:58
I hate to be shallow, but as long as you're taller and wider than I am that would be lovely. :-)
Posted by Susan47 on April 29, 2005, at 11:21:10
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine, posted by partlycloudy on April 28, 2005, at 17:56:10
I will, if it comes back. Right now it ain't too bad. Just have to keep my mind and my body busy ... thank you PC. When are you going to England?
Posted by partlycloudy on April 30, 2005, at 6:56:56
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » partlycloudy, posted by Susan47 on April 29, 2005, at 11:21:10
I'm sorry, you asked me that before and I forgot to reply. I went last September (AND I met NikkiT2 - one of Babble's original members!). It was so very lovely to meet her - she is a fantastic, bubbly woman and super smart. My anxiety gave me some rough times during the trip and it was a mixed bag overall, except for seeing Nikki.
This September we are taking my stepdaughter to Florence and Rome as a graduation present. Hopefully I'll be in better shape by then. Wouldn't want to cry in front of the Pope, would I?
Thanks for asking, sweetie. Hugs to you.
pc
Posted by Susan47 on April 30, 2005, at 11:55:05
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by partlycloudy on April 30, 2005, at 6:56:56
That's right, I remember now. And we were asking if you'd consider taking a laptop with you so you could Babble us regularly, keeping all of us in touch and perhaps helping you control the anxiety, right? Ah. Keep us posted as it gets closer to you leaving ...
Posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 13:03:38
In reply to Horrible Day, Please let me whine, posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 14:03:49
> I really thought this many times in the past, but my second husband even my first, neither one of them likes or trusts women.
> My father is a secret misogynist. I never thought I'd marry someone like dear old Dad, but I did .. twice.
> I feel like shite. Absolute shite. And I understand the springtime depression, wish I didn't my meds are simply not enough. I've lost something, in the last few days, something that was important to me and valuable. It's not a physical item, it's intangible and I don't know how to bring it back.hi susan,
i kind of feel like an intruder coming on this board..i already feel like i drove ppl off the social board with all my posts this week.:( anyway.
i really wanted to respond to this cause my ex was a misogynist. and it was awful..everyone thinks all our problems were due to his crack use, but there was the misogynist problem on top of that. so it was really horrible.
dating a misogynist sucks. btw, he was also a momma's boy. which is the worst. worse than dealing with any drug addict. he was unable to be emotionally intimate with me. i felt like an object to him. and i will *never* date a man again who loves him mom like a girlfriend..is emotionally intimate with her and not me. unreal. it was emotionally tortuous to deal with..felt like i was being cheated on in the worst way (a deep emotional way). anyone whose had to deal with emotional incest invading their relationships will know what i'm talking about. before this relationship i didn't even understand the concept of a momma's boy. i sure do now.
i think his mother's treating him like a husband instead of a son from an early age is what made him a misogyist personally..i think he has deep-seated, repressed again toward her and, hence, women in general (but there can be several other scenarios that create a misogynist, always relating back to the parent/s) but he is sickeningly sweet to her and doesn't have any conscious anger..he directed it toward and other women previous to me..guess i should've known something was wrong when i saw all those holes in the walls...
> I feel like shite. Absolute shite.
sorry to hear that. btw, i feel like sh*t, too.
maybe it'll help you feel better knowing that i understand, sue.
amy
Posted by partlycloudy on April 30, 2005, at 14:47:51
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 13:03:38
> i kind of feel like an intruder coming on this board..i already feel like i drove ppl off the social board with all my posts this week.:( anyway.
>Alesta - you contribute a lot of compassion and insight with every post. Please don't ever feel that you can't join in to a thread! I leave threads alone sometimes just because I think "no one will want to read ANOTHER post from partlycloudy" - but, you know what? Everything that we feel strongly enough about - or interested enough in - to post about, is valuable.
We're sharing a little bit of ourselves with the world. It's a magical, healing thing to do.
keep it coming.
pc
Posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 15:22:29
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » alesta, posted by partlycloudy on April 30, 2005, at 14:47:51
>
> Alesta - you contribute a lot of compassion and insight with every post. Please don't ever feel that you can't join in to a thread! I leave threads alone sometimes just because I think "no one will want to read ANOTHER post from partlycloudy" - but, you know what? Everything that we feel strongly enough about - or interested enough in - to post about, is valuable.
> We're sharing a little bit of ourselves with the world. It's a magical, healing thing to do.
> keep it coming.
> pcawwww, PC..that was a beautiful thing to say. i guess you know how i feel..that's exactly it..*another* post from alesta..i get anxious now every time i hit that submit button..i wish the whole board would post more so i could post more, lol. ya know. i hate only being able to spend a total of 10 minutes posting out of my *entire* very long day. ugh..talkin your ear off..:)
> We're sharing a little bit of ourselves with the world. It's a magical, healing thing to do.
> keep it coming.wow. i didn't look at it like that. that is something to really ponder..no kidding. i'm gonna give that one some thought. that was really, really profound. and a very magical thing to say...gettin me imaginative juices flowin, you are, pc!
thanks hon. you brightened my day. maybe changed it entirely. :-)
hugs!!! :-)
amy
Posted by Susan47 on April 30, 2005, at 15:50:48
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 13:03:38
You said,
"hi susan,i kind of feel like an intruder coming on this board..i already feel like i drove ppl off the social board with all my posts this week.:( anyway."
No, I don't believe that you did for one instant. You did not. You were wonderful.
"i really wanted to respond to this cause my ex was a misogynist...."
I'm thinking, this should be interesting. Will it turn out that we have the same type of experience, or am I mistaken and S isn't a misogynist, just a guy who can't relate well to me ....
"....and it was awful..everyone thinks all our problems were due to his crack use, but there was the misogynist problem on top of that. so it was really horrible."
I can relate to that, because misogyny is something people don't understand IRL, it's something that sometimes is well-concealed. And there're usually other problems, aren't there, such as alcohol or drug abuse, because the fact is that a misogynist is an unbalanced
person. Something's happened inside him or her. Because females can be misogynistic, too, I Know. And it is horrible, yes."dating a misogynist sucks. btw, he was also a momma's boy. which is the worst. worse than dealing with any drug addict."
Interesting. Momma's reluctant little boy, methinks. Momma is controlling.
...."he was unable to be emotionally intimate with me. i felt like an object to him and i will *never* date a man again who loves him mom like a girlfriend..is emotionally intimate with her and not me. unreal. it was emotionally tortuous to deal with..felt like i was being cheated on in the worst way (a deep emotional way)."
Yes. Oh, yes. He and momma get together and suddenly, honey, You are the Enemy. And you're completely awestruck at the rage you feel, because you're not the raging type, not really, you might hate violence, but this act of betrayal IS a violent one. It's emotionally violent, it's against you, and you rage back. You haven't done anything to deserve This, what is being force-fed to you now, in this Bitch's presence. The raised eyebrows, the secret glances, the nuances of speech that gently jab away at you, anything can be taken in at least two or three different ways, and you're tired, so exhausted by having to feel like you're constantly defending yourself, there's a need to hate this woman and her son, because he isn't defending you at all, in fact, behind your back he is saying the meanest things about you, and his whole family is too, and you don't find out until he actually tells you what he's said with them. Sorry, that was my rant.
"....anyone whose [sic], had to deal with emotional incest invading their relationships will know what i'm talking about. before this relationship i didn't even understand the concept of a momma's boy. i sure do now.
"i think his mother's treating him like a husband instead of a son from an early age is what made him a misogyist personally.."
Exactly. My ex- was the surprise youngest of a troubled, hated marriage, a relationship long gone sour, he saw huge amounts of turmoil rage and anger. Incest. Never thought about mother and son, but I'm wondering now if that was a possibility that's been blocked out by him.
"i think he has deep-seated, repressed again toward her and, hence, women in general (but there can be several other scenarios that create a misogynist, always relating back to the parent/s) but he is sickeningly sweet to her and doesn't have any conscious anger.."
That is exactly right. Exactly. Sweet as pie to Mom. Never a bad word against her, unless he's talking to you. Then she's apparently the Bitch from Hell, but he loves her, you know? And even when he says this to you, he never ever loses his temper, it's the one subject you can be guaranteed he never gets excited about. He's afraid to feel what he wants to.
"he directed it toward and other women previous to me..guess i should've known something was wrong when i saw all those holes in the walls..."
I never saw any holes in the walls but the first time I saw him, I remember thinking he looked unhappy (so of course I'm instantly attracted, my little fix-it project, which lasted just long enough to drive me insane and stay that way for several years) and also, I was very very frightened because his kitchen table looked unrecognizable, as such.
Anyways, Alesta, any ideas what you do when this guy has your daughter living with him??? I can't believe it but last week he did something so awful, so terrible, I told the doctor. And the social worker at school. So now the secret is out, and no one can ever say they didn't know, not the people who're supposed to help, in any case.
And I made sure she'll be safe from now on.
But it wasn't easy, Alesta, because she knows
she might lose him if the truth were known
and she gets incredibly angry with me when I
try to protect her, so I walk on eggshells,
and I take the risk of her anger, so I know
that the right thing was done.
Man, I can't believe it all came to this.
I'm just in shock.
This knowledge is all new to me.
Posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 17:06:43
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » alesta, posted by Susan47 on April 30, 2005, at 15:50:48
ooh my god, i'm gonna cry...i just wrote you this detailed email that i put my heart and soul into and it all just deleted..i have no idea how this happens!!!!! the one time i try and skip wordpad, too..dang it..
i guess i'll try and sorta 'sum up' the advice part.:) but let me first say that is nice to have someone understand what it's like dealing with a misogynist..it's funny that we just realized that about each other..most ppl have no idea what i'm talking about when i refer to misogyny, and i don't think psychiatrists/counselors are real familiar with it..i mean how often do you hear about it..bloody never! i didn't even know what it was til i accidentally came across a book on it a couple years ago..and i'd heard of and learned about most of the disorders out there...
> And I made sure she'll be safe from now on.
> But it wasn't easy, Alesta, because she knows
> she might lose him if the truth were known
> and she gets incredibly angry with me when I
> try to protect her, so I walk on eggshells,
> and I take the risk of her anger, so I know
> that the right thing was done.> Man, I can't believe it all came to this.
> I'm just in shock.
> This knowledge is all new to me.
sweetheart..it hasn't 'all come to this', sue. this is not a global catastrophe. this is just a temporary setback and trial in your life. just breathe girl. in with the good air, out with the bad. i know it must be really difficult having a child with a misogynist..but i know she's gonna be fine. and i know you love her dearly.(and just an additional note..it's my hunch that misogynists kind of 'target' their wives with their anger and mistreatment much moreso than they do their kids..just a potentially comforting thought.)
i am really not sure what advice to give you..i can try, but really have no idea what to say. you already notified social services and such. it sounds like your daughter would be very traumatized if she lost her father. perhaps much more traumatized than whatever the other thing was..i feel that sometimes ppl instinctually know what they can handle and what is best for them..depending on her age, i would really consider letting her have a say in how this is dealt with.
you're a good mom, sue. if your daughter needs help, she knows where to find it. i don't think this is the end of the world, no matter what it is, even if seems really horrible to you. you all will get past this, sweetie.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{sue}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
amy:)
Posted by Susan47 on April 30, 2005, at 20:49:44
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » alesta, posted by partlycloudy on April 30, 2005, at 14:47:51
It is, partlycloudy, it is a healing, magical thing to share the way we're all able to. Whatever it is that affects us, it adds to the richness of the lives of all of us, I think. That was so nicely said. I feel bad some days, about coming here, but I do still come to Babble because I need what it's able to give me. And there are no limits, other than civility rules, I'm not being intrusive to anyone, that is so important, not to be intrusive. It's necessary but in real life almost impossible, but this way, it's beautiful.
Posted by Susan47 on April 30, 2005, at 21:00:20
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 17:06:43
Dear Amy, Thank you. Um, what did I want to say.. yes, oh yes he hasn't been sexual with her but when he gets really angry with her, as he has now, twice that I know of in ten years, he hits her so hard that she falls down. I can't believe I married someone, see now I can't believe I was even dating someone or sleeping with or having sex with, a guy who has so much hatred in him.
It's shocking.
It is.
And unbearable,
and the pain I feel
for my daughter, my helpless little worrier,
the round-cheeked, soft-skinned little girl
I gave birth to; my daughter
hurt,
hurt by those
she loves the most.This will not be a lifetime
pattern being set for her.
No, she is aware of the wrong being done.
Because I tell her, and her father tells her,
and he says he's sorry,
although he always has an excuse,
every sorry is followed by a "but",
or "I wouldn't have lost it if...."I hate man-children.
Posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 21:44:57
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » alesta, posted by Susan47 on April 30, 2005, at 21:00:20
> Dear Amy, Thank you. Um, what did I want to say.. yes, oh yes he hasn't been sexual with her but when he gets really angry with her, as he has now, twice that I know of in ten years, he hits her so hard that she falls down. I can't believe I married someone, see now I can't believe I was even dating someone or sleeping with or having sex with, a guy who has so much hatred in him.
> It's shocking.
> It is.
> And unbearable,
> and the pain I feel
> for my daughter, my helpless little worrier,
> the round-cheeked, soft-skinned little girl
> I gave birth to; my daughter
> hurt,
> hurt by those
> she loves the most.awww, susan, it will be ok.
>
> This will not be a lifetime
> pattern being set for her.
> No, she is aware of the wrong being done.
> Because I tell her, and her father tells her,
> and he says he's sorry,
> although he always has an excuse,
> every sorry is followed by a "but",
> or "I wouldn't have lost it if...."
>
> I hate man-children.but at least she has one fully loving parent figure in her life..i do believe she will break the cycle..something tells me she will..probably because she has such a great mom who loves and cares for her deeply.
i do not know *all* the details to know what to say about her relationship with he father. i had no relationship with my father, and honestly would rather have had a dad that struck out once in a blue moon than one who was not interested and not there at all..(it's probably not politically correct for me to say that. i'm kind of writing this paragraph from a child's perspective..don't take this as advice..i'm rambling.) but i'm just trying to see this from your daughter's eyes. she is getting something positive from him, or she wouldn't want to stay..is he as bad to her as he was to you, or is he normally good to her? (i feel like i'm writing stuff that i shouldn't be for some reason..i'm just trying to put all this in perspective, maybe going about it strangely..)
amy:)
Posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 23:19:25
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 21:44:57
hi again, susan,
i just realized that it might seem like i was prying with my last response. i guess i'm trying to help "fix" your situation when what you probably need is just someone to listen at this point..so i'll just give you a big hug.{{{{{{suzy q}}}}}}}}}}
take care,
amy
Posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 8:23:14
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 21:44:57
His nature is and I think it always has been, to lay blame and to see the worst in everyone. It's amazing to me, how people can hide their true selves so effectively when they're trying to make a good impression. I think it's why long courtships are important; I had to learn that lesson the experiental way. Stupid, but I jump into relationships when I'm lonely.
So that attitude of laying blame leads to sarcasm and ugly talk. And as soon as this person opens his mouth, his tone of voice kind of makes you want to tune him out. And you do, and she does. But, yes, she is getting something from her father that's positive, she feels grateful that she has a father. He plays games with them some days, he sets limits, usually they're unreasonable, he expects them to be fully adult. He tells them to do things they're not able to do then gives no help.
Is that positive?
I really don't like him. But sometimes, he is kind. And lovable. And that confuses me. I think it confuses everyone.
Posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 8:23:56
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » alesta, posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 23:19:25
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 10:18:55
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine, posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 8:23:14
> His nature is and I think it always has been, to lay blame and to see the worst in everyone. It's amazing to me, how people can hide their true selves so effectively when they're trying to make a good impression. I think it's why long courtships are important; I had to learn that lesson the experiental way. Stupid, but I jump into relationships when I'm lonely.
> So that attitude of laying blame leads to sarcasm and ugly talk. And as soon as this person opens his mouth, his tone of voice kind of makes you want to tune him out. And you do, and she does. But, yes, she is getting something from her father that's positive, she feels grateful that she has a father. He plays games with them some days, he sets limits, usually they're unreasonable, he expects them to be fully adult. He tells them to do things they're not able to do then gives no help.
> Is that positive?well, i don't know how to explain this, but, looking on the bright side (i will always try to find one; :) i'm not excusing his behavior), at least he is 'out there' with his bad side (to you and your family, not the outside world)..i think that tends to be a lot less toxic than covert manipulative abuse, like my mother. i can't explain what she did to me, but she took my very identity away from me growing up..my whole purpose was to serve her..she made me think like her..,e.g. if i would stand in a room and not face her she would stand in front of me so that i would focus on her..or i would be 8 years old on crutches and she would ask *me* to go get *her* coffee. i wasn't allowed to have my own emotions..it took me years to figure out who the hell i was. oops. sorry to change the subject. your posts get me talking..i didn't realize we had these certain things in common, lol..
how is your daughter adjusting in life? does she have any symptoms of mental chaos/depression?
aim
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 10:23:57
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 10:18:55
btw, just wanna add to what i just posted that i wasn't trying to say that it isn't awful for you and your daughter; i've always got that 'bright side' mechanism working that has to have its say. i know it's rough, and i'm sorry. i figure since i covered how bad it was already, i'd try and lighten the mental load of the subject. perhaps i shouldn't do that...i don't know..:) anyhoo
amy:)
Posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 12:58:54
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 10:18:55
You need to tell me these things about yourself, please do it, okay? You're not changing the subject or anything else. Hmm. Back to my daughter for a second, then to you because it's interesting and I want to talk about you, too. My daughter C has a lot of trouble with her temper. Her moods swing from good to bad in a fraction of a second. And they're intense.
I think your mother sounds really selfish and depressed, when you were growing up in any case. Her world definitely revolved around her. Which we tend to get like, as people, sometimes, when we're troubled. I was like that in my marriage to my ex-, very needy, but I do everything for my children now, and myself, I mostly have no trouble doing things for myself, but then, I'm an AD's and that makes a huge difference. Why were you on crutches, an accident?
Posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 13:00:41
In reply to Re: Horrible Day, Please let me whine » alesta, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 10:23:57
Yes, you should add the bright side. Some people can't handle that, it makes them angry. I can. I'm the same way, and I end up not posting the bright side I see sometimes because the personality of some posters can't take it... also, mood makes a diff. But the thing to understand is that just because you see the "bright" side and someone else doesn't, that does not make you wrong.
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 13:47:49
In reply to Dear Alesta » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 12:58:54
<My daughter C has a lot of trouble with her temper. Her moods swing from good to bad in a fraction of a second. And they're intense.
hmmm. in a fraction of a second..so she's kinda similar to her father that way..or maybe it's a different category of temper..i don't know what i'm sayin, lol. this is way too complex too figure out in the slow-paced support chat world.:)
> Why were you on crutches, an accident?no, nothing major like that. i was playing football (or thought i was) with the little boys in the neighborhood, and they knocked me over accidentally, while stepping on my foot at the same time..it broke my foot, so i had to be on crutches for several weeks. i was a spunky kid.:) i wasn't scared of anyone or anything. except my mom, who was terrifying.
my father didn't give a damn after the divorce. he ignored me after that and it hurt so bad at the time. i think if he'd always been absent it would have been easier than him being there in my early childhood and then just cutting himself off emotionally like that. my mom would make me visit him and i'd cry every weekend..and i swear he could go the whole weekend only saying 3 words to me. so it was just me and my brother. he was the only family i had. he meant the world to me. i never talk about him hardly. maybe i should go to the grief section. he died in a preplanned bike accident that only i knew was really a suicide.
da#$, i guess i needed to get this stuff out. thanks for letting me, susan.
and so that was my crappy childhood; but still, it was nothing nearly as horrible compared to what was to come in my adulthood..but i'll talk about that some other time. thanks again for listening.:)
amy:)
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