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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 31 to 55 of 68. Go back in thread:
Posted by fires on June 25, 2004, at 10:54:57
In reply to Also to Fires, posted by TofuEmmy on June 25, 2004, at 8:17:18
Thanks for the offer, but I don't need any support at this time. I saw my PDoc just yesterday, and she was so impressed by my lowered level of "anxiety" that she said no need for therapy!! I reduced my Effexor to 112.5 mg from 150 mg, and started Florinef for POTS a while back and my "anxiety" is way down. My PDoc won't be seeing me anymore because she has been appointed to Chief Resident.
I put "anxiety" in quotes because I call it intermittent hyper adrenalinism or "going vertical" (POTS= Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome", a type of dysautonomia which is often misdiagnosed as anxiety).
Thank you
Posted by crushedout on June 25, 2004, at 14:23:30
In reply to Hiya, Crushed! » crushedout, posted by Aphrodite on June 25, 2004, at 6:33:37
Thanks, Aphrodite. Yeah, I'm OK. Been working a lot. It's nice to be missed, though. :)(Would redirect to Social but I don't know how.)
Posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 19:06:17
In reply to Re: Also to Fires, posted by fires on June 25, 2004, at 10:54:57
This is THE link to MPD that provides the scientific links that someone had earlier requested:
http://www.csicop.org/si/9805/witch.html
Title: "Multiple Personality Disorder: Witchcraft Survies in the Twentieth Century"
Those who have stated that my posts were upsetting to them should avoid the above site. The evidence (or lack of I should say) is overwhelming.
Thank you
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 26, 2004, at 19:40:11
In reply to Re: I found the missing link, posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 19:06:17
Fires - If I am understanding your intentions correctly, you are trying to educate people about the "truth" regarding DID. My suggestion is to start higher up the food chain for the widest audience and best impact.
Perhaps if you engage in open debate with the practioners of the diagnosing and treating of the illness (which you believe does not exist), this would be more helpful. This would be as opposed to attempting "educate" people who have been diagnosed with this illness.
Try to imagine from their perspective what this post does to them? Can you imagine that it might cause them hurt or harm? Folks with DID already know that it is a highly debated dx. Each DID px here who has posted about their dx has already discussed this.
Perhaps this debate, education, and discussion should happen in an environment of Pdocs and T's, rather than patients? You know - go to the source of "the problem". The px didn't give themselves this dx.
Fires - we do welcome you to get all the support you need here! Everyone needs a shoulder to lean on. We are always available to listen to your needs.
Emmy
Posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 19:49:26
In reply to Re: I found the missing link, posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 19:06:17
In all your years of therapy, were you dx with MPD?
Posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 20:44:32
In reply to Re: I found the missing link, posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 19:06:17
In regard to FMS vs. LPS, please read.
http://www.patiencepress.com/samples/4thIssue.html
Thanks.
Posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 20:46:48
In reply to Re: I found the missing link, posted by TofuEmmy on June 26, 2004, at 19:40:11
A couple of points:
I've received replies similar to yours when I've posted on other forums re: the dangers of alternative meds (esp. herbs and supplements). I feel that I'm providing reliable info. that can potentially save people a lot of time and money.
For those who choose to ignore my posts, for whatever reason, I wish them the best.
2nd point-- Why do you continue to offer me help for needs which I don't have? Does one have to be in need of help in order to post here?
I think not.Thank you
Posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 21:02:51
In reply to False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 20:44:32
I don't care to use my time reading links written by people who compare scientists to Nazis and repeatedly use ad hominem attacks, then use the term: "big lie(s)." I read until it became evident what the author was trying to do.
The article reminds me of the reports that came out not too many years ago regarding autistic children who reportedly could communicate with some assistance. (Facilitated Communication). It was exposed as a fraud when the children started accusing parents, techers, police officers, etc.. of sexually abusing them. Turns out it was the facilitators who made up the stories; the autistic children couldn't communicate at all about such things, let alone type them with assistance.Thank you
Posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 21:14:23
In reply to False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 20:44:32
This comes from the book titled, "Multiple Personality Disorder from the Inside Out"
This comes from chapter one regarding diagnosis.
"The sweetest words I ever heard were, "No, you're not crazy...You're are a walking miracle!"-Vicki G.
"MPD is not just a made for TV story. It is real. It makes you hurt and feel lonely. It makes you cry. I wish more people would understand."-Patricia R.
"People need to know that MPD is not an illness, but an obsolete survival tool."-Tony B.
"Becoming multiple was the healthiest reaction we could have had to the abusive situation we were in."
I am thankful for all my internal helpers that helped me through Hellish experiences. For without them, I would not be here today.
Shadows.
Posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 21:22:59
In reply to In honor of those of us with MPD, posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 21:14:23
Please see.
http://www.manyvoicespress.com/
I receive this newsletter and I think it is wonderful! I bring it to t too. It has wonderful topics.
If anyone else has any great websites to share, please do.
Thanks.
Shadows.
Posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 21:26:17
In reply to Awesome newsletter for MPD/DID pts., posted by shadows721 on June 26, 2004, at 21:22:59
I feel this newsletter would also be valuable to those who have been sexually abused that aren't dissociative. I feel this way, because the newsletter covers so many topics that effect all of us regardless of dx.
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 26, 2004, at 21:40:12
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 21:02:51
Funny, I don't care to use MY time reading links written by people who compare psychologists to practioners of "witchcraft". I read until it became evident what the author was trying to do.
The very first paragraph states that supporters of the dx say that DID "afflicts at least a tenth of all Americans and perhaps 30 percent of poor people." But there is no citation for this astounding figure. Hard to read past that, isn't it? Sure was for me.
Seems we just see things differently. Sometimes when people think so very differently, it's best that they think separately. Time for me to back away.
Emmy
> I don't care to use my time reading links written by people who compare scientists to Nazis and repeatedly use ad hominem attacks, then use the term: "big lie(s)." I read until it became evident what the author was trying to do.
>
Posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 22:53:41
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro » fires, posted by TofuEmmy on June 26, 2004, at 21:40:12
I agree with your statement about it being time to back away.
This is a debate that could go on and on, ...
I do wish to say that my opinions have not been swayed. I don't even recall if I mentioned this at the beginning of my posts or not, so I'll tell you a little story. I've noticed that many here accept personal experiences more than scientifically observed data. Therefore the following story: I went to a skeptics lecture back in the early 90's when MPD somehow exploded on the psych scene. A went to Cal St. U., Fullerton and heard a neuropsych. from UCLA talk about the theory of repressed memories. He said that represssed memeories theory was contrary to scientific data about memory formation and retrieval, and also contrary to OBSERVED data. It was soon after the Northridge E-quake in So. Cal., and he made the point that the quake was the biggest traumatic event in many people's lives -- and they didn't have any repressed memories- in fact they had just the opposite-- they were haunted by the memories of the quake.
He assured the audience that the quake "victims" would not be forgetting the quake. Why should it be different for other traumas?
That's all. I have tons of other questions and have the desire to "study" the topic further -- I would love to see a taped interview with a DID patient when they are "changing" between ids. I think it would be quite enlightening to see if the person's language and mannerisms tuely change.
I was going to stop, but I just have to add this final tidbit : one psych. on tv years ago, claimed that one patient of hers was not allergic to oranges in one id , but was in another!! That seems scientifically testable. Would have loved to have heard the results of such a test.
That's it. Over and out. Best wishes to all. In the words of Rod Stewart; "forrrr... evvvverrr... yyyyoung."
Posted by tabitha on June 26, 2004, at 23:37:07
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 22:53:41
> He assured the audience that the quake "victims" would not be forgetting the quake. Why should it be different for other traumas?
>I can see some differences. For one, being a victim of an earthquake, while no doubt traumatic, doesn't have the same elements of shame, betrayal, and utter horror that could accompany childhood sexual abuse by a trusted adult. There's also no stigma attached to being an earthquake victim. Those folks probably felt pretty sure they'd be able to tell their tales, and process them, without worrying about being punished or disbelieved. They'd probably even get a positive response-- have a good story to tell and so forth. Similarly for combat trauma victims-- there must be so much more shame and horror associated with those memories than those of being in an earthquake. I am not an expert on brain functioning-- as I don't think anyone here is-- but it seems feasible to me that some types of trauma might be processed differently than other types, or that some individuals might have different responses.
And don't many victims of other traumas such as auto accidents or shootings say that they don't recall the incident itself? Remember the story of the 'central park jogger', who was a victim of a horrific assault and rape? She has made a good recovery from her injuries, but still has no memory of the assault.
I don't think you have to look too hard to find documented cases of lost or incomplete memory of trauma. Just because *some* trauma victims have complete memories, doesn't mean *all* of them do.
Posted by tabitha on June 26, 2004, at 23:43:00
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro » fires, posted by TofuEmmy on June 26, 2004, at 21:40:12
> Funny, I don't care to use MY time reading links written by people who compare psychologists to practioners of "witchcraft". I read until it became evident what the author was trying to do.
>
> The very first paragraph states that supporters of the dx say that DID "afflicts at least a tenth of all Americans and perhaps 30 percent of poor people." But there is no citation for this astounding figure. Hard to read past that, isn't it? Sure was for me.Me too, Emmy. Well actually I did read the whole thing. It just seemed like one of those arguments where the person characterizes their adversary in such a twisted way that it's impossible to reject their conclusions. But it doesn't have much meaning, since it starts from such a faulty base. There's a name for it-- straw man argument I think.
Posted by crushedout on June 26, 2004, at 23:56:31
In reply to Re: I found the missing link, posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 20:46:48
> 2nd point-- Why do you continue to offer me help for needs which I don't have? Does one have to be in need of help in order to post here?
> I think not.Why *are* you posting here if you don't have any needs? You must have *some* need or at least a desire; otherwise, you'd take up knitting or something. What is your need -- I'm really wondering? I mean, other than "helping" people who keep making clear that your "help" is hurtful to them? What are you getting out of this conversation? I just want to know -- I'm not trying to help you (don't worry) -- although I'm sure plenty of other people here would be happy to if you wanted or needed the help.
Posted by crushedout on June 27, 2004, at 0:00:41
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by tabitha on June 26, 2004, at 23:37:07
er myself.
Posted by shadows721 on June 27, 2004, at 1:15:56
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by fires on June 26, 2004, at 22:53:41
It is obvious that the person that conducted the Seminar is richly invested in NOT recognizing the horrific damages of rape and incest. One must look at the motive for that minimization. Why would someone look into the eyes of a victim of incest and say something like this?
Fires, I feel you are transferring some feelings on to this board that do not belong to us. I have kindly asked you what was really bothering you and I got no reply. I have kindly asked you to put down this sword (as you stated). I asked you if you were dx with MPD and again I got no reply. I told you of my experience and you stated you didn't understand what I was referring too. Is this intensive focus on disputing therapy and MPD which is directed at me and others (victims of abuse) a diversion of undealt with feelings?
You stated you were backing off, but we are left with yet another post of comparing the memory compacity of Earthquakes to other traumas.
You stated that you lost your brother some where in a post. I am so sorry for your loss. It sounded like his passing was very difficult for you. I am so sorry for that. Is this what's really going on? Is it the pain of grief that is causing all this? I never lost a brother, so I have no idea what you are going through. I feel it is no coincidence you are here. I really don't think it has to do with this particular issue. We can talk words all day, but it doesn't go to the real heart of the matter Fires. What's in your heart that is causing all this pain? I don't hear your feelings Fires. All I read are websites, Freud, and skeptics on MPD. Where are the feelings? Please try to put that into words. I know it must be very very difficult.
Posted by fires on June 27, 2004, at 14:14:58
In reply to trying one last time, posted by shadows721 on June 27, 2004, at 1:15:56
What? I believe I have answered your questions many times. I don't understand your apparent need to see me as in pain, or in need of some "support" that is available here. It is illegal to practice psychotherapy without a license, so I would never come to a forum like this for it!
I've never been Dxed with MPD. Why did you assume I might have been? I've told you many times why I posted my anti-MPD theories links here. Please look at my previous posts.
>>>It sounded like his passing was very difficult for you. I am so sorry for that. Is this what's really going on? Is it the pain of grief that is causing all this?<<<
I think you are making far too many assumptions. I don't understand why you would ask the above questions? The "pain of grief" is not what caused me to make my posts. I don't understand why you would jump to that conclusion?
>>All I read are websites, Freud, and skeptics on MPD. Where are the feelings? Please try to put that into words. I know it must be very very difficult.<<
What? What's wrong with websites, and skeptics on MPD? Are there rules here that I'm not aware of? Why does there have to be "feelings" involved when discussing a topic which should not be influenced by them. As one of the cops and "Dragnet" used to say: "just the facts please."
Enough said.
Thank you
Posted by fires on June 27, 2004, at 14:25:12
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by tabitha on June 26, 2004, at 23:37:07
>>And don't many victims of other traumas such as auto accidents or shootings say that they don't recall the incident itself? Remember the story of the 'central park jogger', who was a victim of a horrific assault and rape? She has made a good recovery from her injuries, but still has no memory of the assault. <<
That's generally not a memory loss problem. It's due to the victim being rendered unconscious. It's hard to remember something that you weren't capable of remebering, due to unconsciousness. (or temporary/permanent brain damage).
Thank you
Posted by fires on June 27, 2004, at 14:30:18
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro » TofuEmmy, posted by tabitha on June 26, 2004, at 23:43:00
>>The very first paragraph states that supporters of the dx say that DID "afflicts at least a tenth of all Americans and perhaps 30 percent of poor people." But there is no citation for this astounding figure. Hard to read past that, isn't it? Sure was for me. <<
I will attempt to find the source of that info.. Will you read them entire article If I do find the source? :)
Thank you
Posted by antigua on June 27, 2004, at 14:41:48
In reply to Re: trying one last time, posted by fires on June 27, 2004, at 14:14:58
If we are going to cite references, I think it's important to place them in context, especially as to their "scientific viablity."
In "Memory and Abuse," Charles L. Whitefield, MD, who is a well-respected psychotherapist ("voted by his peers as being one of the best doctors in America") clearly makes the distinction between traumatic memory and regular memory. It has all the (scientific) arguments anyone could need to verify that we process traumatic memories differently, especially pre-verbal and very early childhood memories. These memories can be caught in our unconcious, trapped, and stay hidden until we are able to process them completely.
Furthermore, just in case you didn't know, I understand from my reading that the False Memory Syndrome Foundation was founded by a couple, an alcoholic and his co-dependent wife (who are also step-siblings believe it or not) in response to their daughter's accusation that her father had sexually abused her. The daughter is a well-qualified psychotherapist in her own right. The Foundation does not carry on any scientific research of its own, and primarily exists to aid people who have been accused of committing sexual abuse. Furthermore, at least one of their former board of directors members publicly stated that he believes pedophilia is an acceptable practice.
So, take what you will, but I'll stick with the facts.
antigua
Posted by tabitha on June 27, 2004, at 16:26:21
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by fires on June 27, 2004, at 14:25:12
> That's generally not a memory loss problem. It's due to the victim being rendered unconscious. It's hard to remember something that you weren't capable of remebering, due to unconsciousness. (or temporary/permanent brain damage).
Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps you're assuming the only way to lose memory is to lose consciousness? I can think of a counter-example-- alcoholic blackout, where the person is conscious, yet loses memory. Apparently alcohol changes the brain's processing of memory. So to me it's feasible that trauma, which produces powerful chemical changes in the brain, could also potentially affect memory functioning.
Posted by zenhussy on June 27, 2004, at 17:04:15
In reply to Re: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndro, posted by tabitha on June 27, 2004, at 16:26:21
>> That's generally not a memory loss problem. It's due to the victim being rendered unconscious. It's hard to remember something that you weren't capable of remebering, due to unconsciousness. (or temporary/permanent brain damage).
> Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps you're assuming the only way to lose memory is to lose consciousness? I can think of a counter-example-- alcoholic blackout, where the person is conscious, yet loses memory. Apparently alcohol changes the brain's processing of memory. So to me it's feasible that trauma, which produces powerful chemical changes in the brain, could also potentially affect memory functioning.
Well the studies I've seen about how trauma affects memory support what you've found feasible.
I thank you for seeing the possibility. I live the reality as many others here do as well. It is strange to have large missing parts of memory when other people can remember that age with noooo problem. For me it has been a constant battle with myself believing that I was crazy and something was wrong with me. I've been to enough doctors now and seen bunches (ok at least nine since age twenty) of therapists to feel reasonably reassured that I am *not* crazy and for the horrors I lived through IT MAKES SENSE that my brain processed it in a way that kept me alive.
erm, any ladies here want to talk about childbirth and memory? Do you remember the pain? And some of you went on to have more? WHY?? Didn't you remember how painful the first time was? Or did that memory store in a different way?
Forgive me if I'm not making sense but I've tried for years to understand memory and the more van der Kolk and Foa I've read the more I understand why I have so many holes in my memory and why that was necessary to my survival.
I very much appreciate your post Tabitha. I have no interest in tangling in this thread as I am not well enough to do so but having read a few posts yours stood out with a clarity I found refreshing.
zh
p.s. I can't WAIT to start painting our nails and having a slumber party! My therp. will laugh silly when I talk about this grand adventure we're all setting off to have. For me this is a good thing and I've got the thread printed out to try to get my responses back in. I'm incredible spacey so focus ain't my strong suit at the moment. You had better not be kidding as Daisy, Racer, and myself will hop out of this area and come your way in a flash. We girlies need this type of thing. I think it healthy and fun and I know my therp would agree. Therp. might be shaking their head muttering some stuff as I drove off but they would support it.
Posted by tabitha on June 27, 2004, at 18:21:42
In reply to Re: FMS vs. LPS...wxy and z now I know my abcs.... » tabitha, posted by zenhussy on June 27, 2004, at 17:04:15
> erm, any ladies here want to talk about childbirth and memory? Do you remember the pain? And some of you went on to have more? WHY?? Didn't you remember how painful the first time was? Or did that memory store in a different way?
That's another good example of self-protective amnesia. But actually I don't think this argument is winnable, even if we had some neuroscientists in here-- the brain is still too much of a mystery, and too little is known. I doubt it can be proven conclusively either way.
That's one of the scary things about therapy, right? It's more of an art than a science. It rests so much on personal truth and intuition.
I sense that the larger issue here is the question.. 'Are therapists trustworthy?'. My impression is that F may be trying to build a case for the idea that therapists are not trustworthy, and this debate about recovered memories is a means to that end. I could be mistaken, due to seeing it through my own filter. I find myself looking for skeptical websites about therapy when my trust in my therapist has been damaged. I'll build up a while new belief system about it. It's like I'm trying to devalue her, so I need her less, so the pain will be less. Then when the relationship is repaired, my belief system changes again. It's humbling, to see how much my emotions affect my intellect. I'd like to think there's some objective, invulnerable part of myself that can just think things through without being influenced by my pesky, uncontrollable emotions.
But I'm coming to believe it's really a trust issue for me. I've been told this in therapy, that I have trust issues, and I didn't really get what that meant, but it's getting clearer. This debate is illuminating it quite a bit.
Go forward in thread:
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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