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Posted by zazenduck on June 2, 2006, at 16:45:01
In reply to Re: How about changing the » zazenduck, posted by NikkiT2 on June 2, 2006, at 13:25:58
No I didn't mean to direct that at anyone . I was just stating my general opinion. Sorry if it was confusing. Thanks for answering my post.
> Oh, and..
>
> >And it's not fair just to protest when it's affecting someone you care about.
>
> I don't do that do I? I thought myself pretty onjective..
>
> Nikki
Posted by AuntieMel on June 2, 2006, at 17:08:04
In reply to Re: I-statements » gardenergirl, posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 11:38:09
My first reaction to the block was - huh?
And I still think she was trying very, very hard not to offend anyone.
But - when I first saw it I was using my own filters, and what my head *heard* was
"The world would be a better place if not for the evil done in the name of religion"
Maybe that is what she meant, maybe not, but it's what my own particular filters interpreted it to be. And I - maybe wrongly - don't see how anyone could disagree with *that* statement.
But - I've gotten email from people who said basically what Nikki did - what if something was put in the place of 'religion' in the sentance.
I can see how that could offend some people.
BUT - she really didn't mean to offend, so I don't agree with the block.
BUT - rules is rules. And even if they aren't applied evenly, I have to applaud the effort to apply them evenly. And I really do believe that those there have the intention of fairnes.
BUT .....
Well, the last BUT is
BUT I really love Estella, and I really feel for her. She's had some rough times and what I *really* want to do is take her in and provide for her and spoil her and teach her the world can be kind and so can the people in it, and sometimes there really isn't an agenda and it's ok to relax.
and so - the head spins.
Posted by henrietta on June 2, 2006, at 18:53:18
In reply to My head is spinning...., posted by AuntieMel on June 2, 2006, at 17:08:04
A lovely post. Me, too.
Posted by henrietta on June 2, 2006, at 18:58:16
In reply to My head is spinning...., posted by AuntieMel on June 2, 2006, at 17:08:04
without:
poverty
injustice
child abuse
AIDS
violence
pollution
hunger
prejudice
imbalances of power
hurricanes
and that's just off the top of my head
Posted by Deneb on June 2, 2006, at 19:24:02
In reply to I think the world would be better off, posted by henrietta on June 2, 2006, at 18:58:16
When you blocked her, I think you should have included that bit about getting help in person if in crisis because I think blocks can precipitate a crisis, I really do.
Blocks hurt her. I don't think we should all assume that she's okay. Sure, we would all like to think that she's okay, but that's just to comfort ourselves. If I were her and I were devastated by my block, I would feel better knowing that people know that I'm hurting and hope that I feel better.
She can't communicate her hurt right now. I think she would feel less alone if people write to her and wish her well.
Deneb*
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 2, 2006, at 20:55:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, I'm worried about Estella, posted by Deneb on June 2, 2006, at 19:24:02
> She can't communicate her hurt right now. I think she would feel less alone if people write to her and wish her well.
>
> Deneb*Since you've brought it up, can anyone tell me the rationale for blocking babblemail, along with public posting, during a block?
Lar
Posted by Deneb on June 2, 2006, at 21:41:37
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, I'm worried about Estella » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on June 2, 2006, at 20:55:17
> Since you've brought it up, can anyone tell me the rationale for blocking babblemail, along with public posting, during a block?
>
> LarYeah, Dr. Bob, what is the rationale for blocking Babblemail? Is it to punish the person more? To isolate them?
What's the harm in Babblemailing someone who is blocked? I think Babblemail should only be blocked if the person abused Babblemail.
Do you block Babblemail because you cannot separate blocking Babblemail from blocking posting?
Deneb*
Posted by Jakeman on June 2, 2006, at 21:43:09
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, I'm worried about Estella » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on June 2, 2006, at 20:55:17
I do not see any rationale. Maybe the cyber version of solitary confinement?
warm regards, Jake
>
> Since you've brought it up, can anyone tell me the rationale for blocking babblemail, along with public posting, during a block?
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by Tabitha on June 3, 2006, at 2:51:10
In reply to Re: I-statements » Tabitha, posted by Gabbi~G on June 2, 2006, at 12:51:40
>
> I don't think we all have the same choices, or can decide whether or not it's simple for someone to leave a support group or not, especially when mental illness is involved.I didn't mean to imply that it's simple. Far from it.
Posted by 10derHeart on June 3, 2006, at 9:36:08
In reply to Re: guiding principles » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on June 2, 2006, at 9:53:55
> I really don't want to argue the point anymore, not least because I don't wish to hurt Estella.
Exactly why I can hardly bring myself to post on this. It must be a million times past any frustration I can imagine to read things, all about you, and not be able to answer/explain... I was the only poster who remarked on the thread that I felt a little put down. She was ready to elaborate (and did), and we could have chosen to discuss it on/off boards, but then came the attempted rephrase and block.....:-(
>
> But I will say that Estella has many people here who care about her, and would be more than willing to review posts she's concerned about.Me, me, me.
>Myself included. I may not always understand how Dr. Bob will read something, but I understood that one, and could have helped prevent a block.<<
Me, too. I regret very much that events unfolded in the order they did. Just to clarify, I'm not blaming myself for her block - that wouldn't make sense at all - the PR came before I ever said anything anyway.....but in this case, I knew how it sounded *to me* as a religious person....the *ouch* fator, if you will, upon first reading it, and I think I could have helped. Or at least I would have tried my best...
Posted by 10derHeart on June 3, 2006, at 9:41:37
In reply to Re: I-statements » Larry Hoover, posted by Tabitha on June 2, 2006, at 12:16:44
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 9:52:37
In reply to Re: guiding principles » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on June 3, 2006, at 9:36:08
> Me, too. I regret very much that events unfolded in the order they did. Just to clarify, I'm not blaming myself for her block - that wouldn't make sense at all - the PR came before I ever said anything anyway.....but in this case, I knew how it sounded *to me* as a religious person....the *ouch* fator, if you will, upon first reading it, and I think I could have helped.
Here's the deal, as I see it. You were triggered.
There are civil comments, posted to these boards, that trigger me severely. PTSD is a hyper-sensitization disorder. That's my whole life. I live inside its boundaries.
Just as I do not seek any repercussions on someone who has triggered me, I do not feel that Estella is responsible for your perhaps natural emotional response.
Other events in your life promoted your triggered sense. Not her. She spoke only of a hypothetical philosophical construct, the entity or domain of religion.
Other people and other arguments have come in your life, and you were remembering those.
Her words were civil.
Lar
Posted by 10derHeart on June 3, 2006, at 9:56:02
In reply to Re: guiding principles » 10derHeart, posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 9:52:37
Lar,
I know what you're saying, yet I disagree with you in this case.
But I can't elaborate any more. Not here, not now.
Sorry.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 10:18:29
In reply to Re: guiding principles » Larry Hoover, posted by 10derHeart on June 3, 2006, at 9:56:02
> Lar,
>
> I know what you're saying, yet I disagree with you in this case.
>
> But I can't elaborate any more. Not here, not now.
>
> Sorry.Of course. I raise only ideas. It is hard, to discuss this. I really do know that, intimately.
What I think I see, is evidence of a religious trigger theme.
Which fairly captures what she was saying, ironically enough.
I'm struggling to throw words around an experience that transcends language.
I do not wish to define another person's experience. I'm trying to tease out the essence of an issue that touches us all.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 11:57:55
In reply to Re: guiding principles » 10derHeart, posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 10:18:29
I cannot speak of it, here.
Some religious teachings have it that there is no world without.....
Uhhh
It is not her fault that there are these teachings where to consider the thought she considered is forbidden.
Yet, those same teachings hold that one has until one's death, to find......
You see, I can't.
The rule thought to be violated here is not universal.
In that she had the thought, and stated her preference.
Others may hold other preferences, absent any further consideration of implied anything.
Nothing was implied by what she said.
Unless it is a sin to merely imagine what she said.
But the sense of sin is taught by...
You see?
<sigh>
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 13:58:56
In reply to Re: guiding principles, posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 11:57:55
Was Estella blocked, for being an atheist in a Judeo-Christian?? Babble?
No, is an insufficient answer.
Posted by Gabbi~G on June 3, 2006, at 15:23:14
In reply to Re: guiding principles, posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 13:58:56
Are sophistry and overwrought prose uncivil?
Can they be?
Posted by Gabbi~G on June 3, 2006, at 15:50:06
In reply to Re: guiding principles, posted by Gabbi~G on June 3, 2006, at 15:23:14
inexcusably rude. sorry.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 3, 2006, at 22:43:31
In reply to How about changing the, posted by NikkiT2 on June 2, 2006, at 2:51:12
> "I think the world would be a better place without Estella"
hmm.
well i prefer to be free from nikki, or nikki free.
note that that is a statement about me.> Yes, I realise that my post was "un-civil". I decided that I wished to say what I did, and will accept any punishment that comes my way.
hmm.
you decided it was worth a blocking to hurt me.hope you proved your point.
given that performance i think the boards would be better off without nikki. you know, hypothetically and all.
woo hoo 12 weeks bring it on!!!!!!!
Posted by Dinah on June 3, 2006, at 22:51:46
In reply to Re: How about changing the » NikkiT2, posted by alexandra_k on June 3, 2006, at 22:43:31
> hmm.
> well i prefer to be free from nikki, or nikki free.Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. Please be sensitive to their feelings even if yours are hurt.
You've been asked to be civil before, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to block you from posting.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Posted by Jakeman on June 4, 2006, at 1:05:55
In reply to Re: blocked for 4 weeks, posted by teejay on May 21, 2006, at 18:34:13
Are you willing to reconsider this block?
Respectfully, Jake
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 4, 2006, at 1:32:23
In reply to Re: How about changing the » NikkiT2, posted by alexandra_k on June 3, 2006, at 22:43:31
You *know* it wasn't to hurt you. It was to try and prove a point.
Alex, you know, you are just another babbler.. I don't know you enough to even care to try and hurt you over anyone else. I've never received a message of support from you when I have needed it, I've never had much of a "conversation" with you.. so please, don't flatter yourself that I did this as an attempt to hurt you.
You know what, I have had babble *up to here* recently. I am fed up of receiving babble mails sayong "oooh, you must be extra nice to xxx because they are low"? Hang on, has anyone but Larry even noticed I am on the verge of losing it through instense, constant pain of a level that isn't livable with? Has anyone other than Larry offered a hug and support, and not just "oh, you should see the level fo pain *I* live with, its much worse than yours" which is all I seem to get from anyone else in my life. No, but those that shout the loudest *always* get all the attention.
Nothing ever changes
Posted by gardenergirl on June 4, 2006, at 2:05:07
In reply to Re: How about changing the » alexandra_k, posted by NikkiT2 on June 4, 2006, at 1:32:23
Friendly reminder...
Some options:
-Check out the FAQ http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil-Consult a civility buddy if needed
-Compose your reply and then let it sit for a bit. Post after you've come back to it for revising or editing if needed.
-Email or babblemail Dr. Bob or a deputy if you don't feel you can post your question, comment or concern on the board.
Just a friendly reminder. Here's a virtual box of salt. Take all you may need.
gg
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2006, at 8:25:18
In reply to Re: How about changing the » alexandra_k, posted by NikkiT2 on June 4, 2006, at 1:32:23
> You *know* it wasn't to hurt you. It was to try and prove a point.
I'm sorry Nikki. I'm sorry Estella. I'm sorry Babble. I'm sorry.
I did the same. I know I did. Making examples.
If the sanctions were appropriate, we would not be stuck here.
The solution to that problem, is not to wield the Great Bat of Babble, and smuck somebody into next month (the net effect of a four week block).
I fail to see a single benefit accruing to that act.
<very big sigh>
Lar
Posted by zazenduck on June 4, 2006, at 10:45:34
In reply to Re: How about changing the » alexandra_k, posted by NikkiT2 on June 4, 2006, at 1:32:23
> You *know* it wasn't to hurt you.
Nikki you can't *know* what someone else thinks unless she tells you. I am afraid it might feel a little invalidating to be told soemething like that.
>
> Alex, you know, you are just another babbler..I heartily disagree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alex is one of a kind
>I don't know you enough to even care to try and hurt you over anyone else. I've never received a message of support from you when I have needed it, I've never had much of a "conversation" with you.. so please, don't flatter yourself that I did this as an attempt to hurt you.
>
> You know what, I have had babble *up to here* recently. I am fed up of receiving babble mails sayong "oooh, you must be extra nice to xxx because they are low"? Hang on, has anyone but Larry even noticed I am on the verge of losing it through instense, constant pain of a level that isn't livable with? Has anyone other than Larry offered a hug and support, and not just "oh, you should see the level fo pain *I* live with, its much worse than yours" which is all I seem to get from anyone else in my life.I actually thought of saying something like hope you're feeling better but it seems inadequate and you hardly know me either so I decided to stay on topic. I don't do internet hugs but I am sorry you're in pain and hope it gets better.
> No, but those that shout the loudest *always* get all the attention.Nikki will it make you feel attended to if you don't get blocked for 3 weeks? If you are treated as special re penalties for what you noted what against the rules? Because I think there might be other ways to get attention. Shouting louder might be more direct and more effective? I'm just asking not suggesting that's the case and I certainly don't want you blocked. I don't want anybody blocked. The system stinks. It divides the community and causes conflict and pain all around.
>
> Nothing ever changesI know How many times has this conversation with Bob been held and his response to requests for change always involve adding more time or more rules or more math. And Alex was so danged patient trying to talk to him for so long. That's what makes this one even a little worse for me.
I'm sorry you're in pain and no one is paying any attention.
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