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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 377 to 401 of 536. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 21:01:57
In reply to Re: my vote » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on April 25, 2005, at 20:30:58
Dinah
(((Dinah)))
We are crossing posts...> Thank you for that, Alexandra. For saying that you know that I don't want people's opinions to be influenced by me. Well, maybe by the brilliance of my persuasive arguments, but not by me. I never like that idea.
Oh Dinah I KNEW that. I mean really and truely. I knew you would be appalled at my pointing it out. But I really did think that that was what was happening. I was worried about how you might take my saying that. I worried a bit that you would see it as a further reason to remove yourself. But I hoped, I really hoped that you would see it as a reason to take a deep breath before posting and to post what you thought more than how appalled you were at the idea. Not that they are mutually exclusive. I just mean that the sheer force with which you write about how very offended you are at the very idea is what brings out that reaction in people (IMO) - and I guess I figured that you didn't consciously realise that. Because I knew you would find the very idea of that repugnant.
> I'm sorry if I overreact. I run smack dab into two opposing forces that are very important to me. My love of Babble, which is fierce, and my ideals of community, which is equally strong. It distresses me a great deal when something like that happens.Its ok. I have been known to get VERY VERY wound up about things that are important to me as well. It really is very clear that it is because you care so very much. I'm sorry for your distress. Really. But (once again) I do think that the answer is to stay here and continue to post what you think (and I do believe it can be done even within the amended civility guidelines).
> I didn't say I'd leave Babble forever. I actually made the decision to stay at Babble regardless.YAY!! OH YAY!!!
>But whenever this topic comes up, it so disorders my world and the natural order of things that I need to step away for a while. Especially when the new Babble regulations about this board inexplicably (to me) seem to require that I remain silent.
Oh, no. I don't think that is the intention of them. It is just words like 'glass ceiling' and 'exclusionary' and that... Well, that is my understanding anyway. But if you clearly define what you mean by those terms... Or just remove those terms altogether... I think there is still scope to express ones opposition.
> I do wish Dr. Bob would have a community expert weigh in on the idea. My therapist happens to be a community expert...Heh heh. And he agrees with you already, no doubt ;-)
I actually wonder if he has been changing his mind on this given that he doesn't seem to have set one up yet...
Posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 21:03:12
In reply to Re: my vote, posted by gardenergirl on April 25, 2005, at 20:36:59
> Perhaps I'm naive, but I just figured if Dr Bob actually ever set them up, not too many folks would even use them. Kind of a if you build it, they won't come? I don't know. But then I still get tripped up when I assume folks think like I do. :)
Uh. I think enough would probably use it to keep them going... Newbies would probably be the most likely to join up... And maybe some people who feel anxious over on social. I actually decided to join up around about number 5. But I have changed my mind now...
Posted by Dinah on April 25, 2005, at 21:08:23
In reply to Re: To Dinah (and all) but Dinah - please read, posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 20:54:10
Alexandra, I'm really not planning to leave for good. I'm not sure I could if I wanted to. I just get too upset and need to step back when this type of conversation is going on.
I understand the problem of those who are new, or those who don't get replies. I offered to brainstorm ideas with Dr. Bob, and was brushed off not too gently. I have no objections to small rooms where others can't read. Other people might but I don't. I have email conversations with other people right now, and I don't see that as any different. But Dr. Bob isn't interested in alternate solutions, just this one. And that's cool. It's his board. He can do what he wants.
But I get inordinately distressed... Oh, never mind. Maybe I just get inordinately distressed. Falls would say it was old pain. My mother would say it was old teaching and that I was a good girl. My therapist says... Hmmm... Better not say that either.
Posted by Dinah on April 25, 2005, at 21:12:19
In reply to Re: my vote » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 21:01:57
Well, I don't get inordinately distressed to sway people's opinion.
But I'm not going to pretend I'm not inordinately distressed either. If I could do that I wouldn't be inordinately distressed. I'd be mildly distressed.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 21:14:04
In reply to Re: my vote » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on April 25, 2005, at 21:12:19
> Well, I don't get inordinately distressed to sway people's opinion.
>
> But I'm not going to pretend I'm not inordinately distressed either. If I could do that I wouldn't be inordinately distressed. I'd be mildly distressed.Heh heh. Yeah, I suppose.
I don't know, thats a hard one...
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 21:40:07
In reply to Re: my vote » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 21:14:04
Alexandra, I just wanted to comment on one of your posts further up this Thread. I have noticed how often you welcome a Newbie to the Board. That's great! And how often you redirect their Thread. Sometimes I see we welcome a Newbie to Pbabble but not all the time. We do need improvement. But I also have an idea. One of the reasons I don't Post on Social is that it seems to attract a "young" crowd in general with issues that older people don't seem to have as often. Would it be discriminatory to have a Social Board for those who wish to disclose their age bracket? That way we could discuss issues that are pertinent to our age group. An example would be the empty nest syndrome. Somehow it makes me feel old to hear about dating and young children. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive. But I thought I'd ask. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 2:28:44
In reply to Re: To Dinah (and all) but Dinah - please read » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on April 25, 2005, at 21:08:23
> I'm for them too.
>
> Though, I don't like the idea that everyone can see, but only few can post.. If they're gonna happen, then only the people who can post on them should be able to read them in my opinion.
>
> I would like somewhere safer to post without the whole world seeing my posts..
>
> Nikki> That's a crucial difference though, and it's not happening. We did suggest that they either be *private* or not exist at all.
>
> I'm really dissappointed.
>
> Gabbi-x-2Sorry I wasn't more open before to discussing making them totally private. I can see that would feel safer, not having the whole world watching. But if other posters couldn't see, either, wouldn't they worry about what was being said about them?
--
> I do wish Dr. Bob would have a community expert weigh in on the idea. My therapist happens to be a community expert...
Would he be interested in weighing in? As a visiting expert?
> Maybe I just get inordinately distressed.
>
> DinahMore than just ordinately?
--
> With respect to civility...
> There was some concern about people saying that small boards were exclusive and stuff like that. The concern was that posters might not feel comfortable joining up to the small boards (if they ever get underway) because posters might think that other posters think they are being exclusionary in joining.
>
> That was what that was about.
> You can say you don't like them [the new boards] etc.
> But I think you aren't really supposed to call them [posters who join them] 'names'.
>
> alexandra_kThanks for summarizing the previous discussion! I just added a little emphasis above...
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 26, 2005, at 3:16:48
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 2:28:44
" But if other posters couldn't see, either, wouldn't they worry about what was being said about them?"
I discussed this with someone via babble mail yesterday actually.
a) is that any different from babble mail? if people don't worry whats being said to them via babble mail (maybe they do though.. I don't know!), how does this differ?
and b) I presume the same civility standards would ave to be adhered to, which wouldn't allow anyone to say anything negative about anyone, whether they can see that board or not.
Plus, an addition of a rule not to discuss anyone that couldn't see / post on that board would completely remove any worry.Nikki
Posted by alexandra_k on April 26, 2005, at 6:16:40
In reply to Re: smaller groups » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on April 26, 2005, at 3:16:48
> " But if other posters couldn't see, either, wouldn't they worry about what was being said about them?"
Yeah. I agree with Nikki. In fact, I would think it would feel 'safer' than Babblemail because of the civility restrictions on the boards which don't come into play with respect to Babblemail unless someone complains.
But not discussing particular posters who can't post to the board sounds like a good idea too.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 7:34:47
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 2:28:44
>
> Sorry I wasn't more open before to discussing making them totally private. I can see that would feel safer, not having the whole world watching. But if other posters couldn't see, either, wouldn't they worry about what was being said about them?
>
I'm not as worried about safety as other considerations which I do not feel free to name. But on the point of other considerations, private private boards are so infinitely superior that it would outweigh for me that worry altogether. Besides, as others have said, it wouldn't be unlike babblemail. I have reason to believe from things said to me over the years that my name is not unknown in private conversations. It doesn't bother me overmuch. And a rule not to discuss those not able to post would be extra extra civil. I trust you, Dr. Bob. And actually, I thank you for being more open this time to making private boards private.> --
>
> > I do wish Dr. Bob would have a community expert weigh in on the idea. My therapist happens to be a community expert...
>
> Would he be interested in weighing in? As a visiting expert?
>
I'll ask him. He does have training in the field of community building and that's his second job, or one of them. I'd be happy to help him forward his credentials to you if he's interested. But I'm not sure he would be. Although he completely agrees with me on this issue, he may feel that it is a conflict of interest. And also he doesn't much like the internet. I hope you understand how much both Babble and this issue mean to me in that I'm willing to sacrifice my privacy for it.
> > Maybe I just get inordinately distressed.
> >
> > Dinah
>
> More than just ordinately?
>
I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand. Doesn't inordinately mean more than just ordinately? Am I missing a smile? Or are you trying to hint at something?Am I still entitled to wear white? I really don't understand the new rules, you know. Even with Alexandra's elucidation.
Posted by AuntieMel on April 26, 2005, at 8:30:44
In reply to Re: my vote » alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 21:40:07
Thanks for calling me a youngster. I guess 50 is pretty young these days.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 9:02:04
In reply to Re: youngsters?? » Phillipa, posted by AuntieMel on April 26, 2005, at 8:30:44
At 43 and with a falling apart body, I'm flattered as well.
However, I do think that would be a legitimate extra board. So would PB teens or something like that.
Posted by AuntieMel on April 26, 2005, at 9:28:54
In reply to Re: youngsters?? » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 9:02:04
You are right, but with a pb teens there would need to be extra hooks. Just the word 'teen' would bring some creeps out of the woods.
And the one for those of us who are 'more mature?' Possible names:
PB-aarp
PB-OldF*rt
PB-GeezerThis could be fun. The criteria for getting in? Maybe that you didn't notice the "sexual side-effects" of your anti-depressant?
I could go on ....
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 10:42:26
In reply to Re: youngsters?? » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on April 26, 2005, at 9:28:54
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 17:57:21
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 2:28:44
> Would he be interested in weighing in? As a visiting expert?
Sorry if you didn't mean that seriously, Dr. Bob. You should know better than to not be literal with me.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on April 26, 2005, at 18:55:23
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 2:28:44
I wouldn't be concerned about what other posters were saying about me because I'd expect the civility rules would still apply. As far as gossip goes, it would be more likely to happen with babblemail and just as likely to happen with Yahoo Groups.
> > That was what that was about.
> > You can say you don't like them [the new boards] etc.
> > But I think you aren't really supposed to call them [posters who join them] 'names'.
> >
> > alexandra_k
>
> Thanks for summarizing the previous discussion! I just added a little emphasis above...
>
Dr. Bob saying you don't like something is rather limiting, without being able to say why.
What was offensive wasn't that you didn't permit us to negatively characterize the people who would join such a group, you did not allow us to say how we felt about the idea of smaller groups.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 23:11:39
In reply to Re: smaller groups » Dr. Bob, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on April 26, 2005, at 18:55:23
> > if other posters couldn't see, either, wouldn't they worry about what was being said about them?
>
> a) is that any different from babble mail?
> b) I presume the same civility standards would ave to be adhered toHmm, you have a point there... I think people are more "flammable" interacting as a group than as individuals, but I hadn't taken the civility standards into account...
If people couldn't see what was going on in these groups, why would they want to join? How would they choose? Thanks for thinking this through with me...
> Plus, an addition of a rule not to discuss anyone that couldn't see / post on that board would completely remove any worry.
>
> NikkiBelieve it or not, I'd rather not add any new rules unless it were really necessary...
> > --
> >
> > > I do wish Dr. Bob would have a community expert weigh in on the idea. My therapist happens to be a community expert...
> >
> > Would he be interested in weighing in? As a visiting expert?
> >
> I'll ask him. He does have training in the field of community building and that's his second job, or one of them. I'd be happy to help him forward his credentials to you if he's interested. But I'm not sure he would be. Although he completely agrees with me on this issue, he may feel that it is a conflict of interest. And also he doesn't much like the internet. I hope you understand how much both Babble and this issue mean to me in that I'm willing to sacrifice my privacy for it.Great, let's see what he says. If there are too many issues with involving him, maybe he could recommend someone else?
> > > Maybe I just get inordinately distressed.
> >
> > More than just ordinately?
> >
> I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand. Doesn't inordinately mean more than just ordinately? Am I missing a smile? Or are you trying to hint at something?Sorry about that. What I had in mind was the possibility of your own issues possibly playing a role in your reaction, but you had already acknowledged that yourself when you said Falls would say there was old pain...
> Am I still entitled to wear white?
>
> DinahAnyone who would like to wear white may do so. :-)
--
> you didn't permit us to negatively characterize the people who would join such a group, you did not allow us to say how we felt about the idea of smaller groups.
>
> Gabbi-x-2Sorry, did I get carried away? It's fine to say how you feel about the idea of smaller groups as long as the people who would join them aren't negatively characterized.
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on April 27, 2005, at 1:12:52
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 23:11:39
> If people couldn't see what was going on in these groups, why would they want to join? How would they choose? Thanks for thinking this through with me...
I guess people would have to sign up to have a look. Lots of stuff is done that way on the internet.
I joined up to another site where you could see the board but you had to join to read the threads. That might be another option.
> > you didn't permit us to negatively characterize the people who would join such a group, you did not allow us to say how we felt about the idea of smaller groups.
> Sorry, did I get carried away? It's fine to say how you feel about the idea of smaller groups as long as the people who would join them aren't negatively characterized.
Thanks for clarifying. I think it was a bit confusing. I wasn't sure whether you were making that distinction or not.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 6:22:40
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 23:11:39
Choose? I thought you had dropped the entire idea of choosing because of the potential for it to be incredibly hurtful to be chosen or not chosen. Less enlightened schools than my sons have at least dropped choosies.
I can't believe I got that wrong.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 9:29:11
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 23:11:39
Hmmm...
I suppose those who *started* a small group would realize they would sit there very publicly and have their popularity voted upon by who might join in, thus risking public rejection and humiliation. Do the people who wish to join have to go, hat in hand, and sit anxiously while their fate is decided? Oh well, I suppose they would also realize and accept the possibility of rejection and humiliation.
Who *are* you, Dr. Bob? Don't you think of these things?
Posted by AuntieMel on April 27, 2005, at 15:31:08
In reply to Re: smaller groups » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 9:29:11
If I remember it right anyone could choose to join a group until it reached 'some' number. First come, first serve.
I don't think you had to be voted in, like a country club.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on April 27, 2005, at 16:50:22
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 23:11:39
> > Gabbi-x-2
>
> Sorry, did I get carried away?All the way to Greece..
Thanks for the apology.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 18:16:20
In reply to Re: choosing » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on April 27, 2005, at 15:31:08
I was thinking about the other side too. But I can't worry about the world. As I said, they would know what they were getting into.
I just have trouble figuring out Dr. Bob's mind sometimes. I'd love to have a peek inside for a minute or two.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 21:21:31
In reply to Re: smaller groups, posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2005, at 23:11:39
BTW, he's thinking. If he says no, I'll ask if he has any colleagues who might be willing.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 27, 2005, at 21:29:47
In reply to Re: smaller groups » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 9:29:11
> I suppose those who *started* a small group would realize they would sit there very publicly and have their popularity voted upon by who might join in
Hmm. I guess I wouldn't see it as a popularity thing whether other people joined me or not. I would think they were deciding on whether they wanted to join a small board or not rather than deciding whether they wanted to join me in particular or not.
>thus risking public rejection and humiliation.
So I guess I wouldn't feel rejected or humiliated if other people didn't join in.
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