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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 64. Go back in thread:
Posted by Toph on November 30, 2004, at 10:15:56
In reply to Lou's response to Toph-yamobas » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 9:49:10
Your welcome, Lou.
-Toph
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 10:46:05
In reply to post-iotatas » Lou Pilder, posted by Toph on November 30, 2004, at 9:27:09
Toph,
You wrote,[Unless...you ask Bob to determine...whether something is antisemitic...you are simply making noise...to get his (Dr. Hsiung's) attention...].
When I look at this , as a whole, there is a procedure for posters to request a determination as to acceptability. But there is a restraint to prohibit more than 3 of these requests involving the same poster to be posted on the administrative board. That leaves a request via email to Dr. Hsiung for a determination and I am suggesting another procedure to be implemented so that if Dr. Hsiung is unavailable to respond to email requests that a poster could halt the thread.
This thread was initiated by my request to Dr. Hsiung to establish a procedure for posters to halt a thread when Dr. Hsiung does not address the post in question and there has been an attempt by either email or posting on the admnistrative board to address the post in question.
There could be posts that could have an adverse effect on some posters in relation to psychological or emotional or psychiatric issues and being that this is a mental health forum chaired by a psychiatrist, it is my opinion that a procedure for posters to halt a thread that has a post that IMO has the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings or to have the potential IMO to remind jewish people and others of the horrors of nazisim , or have IMO the potential to be defaming or some other good cause, could be a supportive measure here. If there was a poster wanting a halt to a thread, the others in the thread could start another thread. I feel that my suggestion here could have the potential to be a good suggestion.
I do not feel that I am [...simply making noise...to get (Dr. Hsiung's) attention...] because I think that my suggestion has merit here and could be a good contribution to the managment of this site.
As far as asking Dr. Hsiung to determine if something is antisemitic, I do not believe that I have asked him to determine if something is anti-semitic, but to determine if something {has the potential.IMO. to arrouse antisemitic feelings} or has the potential IMO to remind a jewish person of the horrors of nazisism or to have the potential to be, IMO, defaming to another poster and such . A poster could post something that has the potential IMO to arrouse antisemitic feelings and that does not mean that the poster is antisemitic and I do not belive that I posted that a poster was antisemitic.
Noa's post brought this out when he/she wote about,{powerfull and painfull images} in your post. These powerfulll and painfull images have the potential to remind jewish people and others of the horrors of nazisim and it is my deep conviction that statements of that nature are not supportive on a mental health forum in a diverse population as we have here.
Lou
Posted by Toph on November 30, 2004, at 10:53:26
In reply to Lou's reply to Toph-smntgdha » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 10:46:05
Lou,
I'm not sure I understand or agree with many of the things that you say, but I wish to God that I had more of your passion.
-Toph
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 11:00:57
In reply to smntgdha's reply to » Lou Pilder, posted by Toph on November 30, 2004, at 10:53:26
Toph,
You wrote,[....I am not sure...or agree with...things you say...].
Could you list any of these things that you are not sure that you agree with me about? If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Toph on November 30, 2004, at 11:31:38
In reply to Lou's reply to Toph-iansoa » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 11:00:57
> Could you list any of these things that you are not sure that you agree with me about?I could, but I prefer to get back to work. Have a nice day, Lou.
-Toph
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 30, 2004, at 12:47:48
In reply to Re: Toph-fer-extrm's reply to » Toph, posted by Noa on November 29, 2004, at 19:38:17
Noa,
I should have expanded further to say that I did feel that linking Dr Bobs actions and those of the Haulocaust was wrong.. But I don't believe that threads should be locked down after twleve hours only for one subject. There are many subjects out there that hurt alot of us a great deal, and my point was bascially whether we allow locking down of threads for *all* subjects that cause hurt, as we can't really allow that for only one subject - how ever awful it was.
Does that make more sense?
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 13:56:25
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for a halting procedur » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 7:06:40
Dr. Hsiung,
I have considered my first draft of my proposed halting procedure.
As I have had time to look at my proposal, there could be more definition to the original proposal.
At first, I thought that waiting some time, let's say 12 hours, for you to address the post in question would be needed. I now consider any time period to not be relevant, because if there is a halt,it is because one does not want other posts of a similar nature to continue and one in the thread could start a new thread.
Also, I suggested that {reasonable cause} be stated. I think that there could be a list of these causes formulated by you in advance which could give more definition to the proposal.
Lou Pilder
Posted by pegasus on November 30, 2004, at 15:23:29
In reply to Lou's summery toDr.Hsiung-procedure to halt thread, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 13:56:25
Lou,
I don't follow why it would be better to stop the discussion in one thread, but allow it to continue in a new thread. Wouldn't the potentially problematic content still be on the forum? What's the advantage of jumping it into the second thread? I'm just not getting the point, I think.
pegasus
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 15:52:44
In reply to Re: Lou's summery toDr.Hsiung-procedure to halt th » Lou Pilder, posted by pegasus on November 30, 2004, at 15:23:29
pegasus,
That is a good observation. But could there be some introspection by the posters in the thread, after the halt is posted, that could, perhaps, alter the new posts in the new thread?
Lou
Posted by AuntieMel on November 30, 2004, at 16:58:37
In reply to Lou's reply to pegasus- » pegasus, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 15:52:44
before one of us gets in trouble.
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 17:08:27
In reply to Let's put a halt to this thread, posted by AuntieMel on November 30, 2004, at 16:58:37
One aspect of this thread is thatI have proposed to Dr. Hsiung that he write a list of just causes for one to post a halt to a thread. So after one posts a halt, the other posters could examine the list of just causes for a halt to be posted and if they wanted to start a new thread they could post accordingly. If this thread had a halt posted to it, what could be a just cause for the post of the halt?
Lou
Posted by AuntieMel on November 30, 2004, at 17:30:52
In reply to Lou's response to an aspect of this thread-jstcaus, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 17:08:27
It's simple. Like I said, so one of us doesn't get in trouble. It's an emotional topic for me too. I have visited Auschwitz twice and I still can't find words to describe the experience.
So - a breather seems to be in order.
Posted by verne on November 30, 2004, at 18:52:40
In reply to post-iotatas » Lou Pilder, posted by Toph on November 30, 2004, at 9:27:09
Toph,
I don't think you did anything wrong using the word "holocaust". The word has been around long before what's referred to as "The Holocaust".
Reminds me of the director Spike Lee (is that his name?) who sued the Spike TV channel for rights to the word "spike". He was serious.
He lost of course. The results would have been holocaustic. We could no longer "spike" the ball in volleyball, drive a spike on the railroad, spike a drink, or just use the word "spike" when we ran out of vocabulary.
verne
Posted by henrietta on November 30, 2004, at 19:08:56
In reply to Spike the Ball » Toph, posted by verne on November 30, 2004, at 18:52:40
I find this post extremely offensive.
Posted by henrietta on November 30, 2004, at 19:13:47
In reply to Re: Toph-fer-extrm's reply to » Toph, posted by Noa on November 29, 2004, at 19:38:17
Noa,
Thank you for an eloquent and thoughtful addition to this discussion.
Posted by Gabbix2 on November 30, 2004, at 19:39:52
In reply to Re: Toph-fer-extrm's reply to, posted by henrietta on November 30, 2004, at 19:13:47
> Noa,
> Thank you for an eloquent and thoughtful addition to this discussion.I'd like to thank Noa too, for making me think (I like that!) I didn't pause for a second at Tophs comparison, and agree that it wasn't his intention to trivialize the holocaust, however Noa's post will ensure that I never become numb to such an analogy again.
Posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 22:04:22
In reply to Lou's summery toDr.Hsiung-procedure to halt thread, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 13:56:25
Lou,
I've been thinking about your proposal, and I have a similar concern as pegasus. I don't think putting a halt on a thread would keep people from posting similar-styled posts on a new thread. It may serve to only create many more similar threads on one board.Also, I can tell from past posts that you wish Dr. Bob would respond to your requests faster than he does sometimes. And I know he has missed some of them as well. I just think a 12 hour window is way too short to allow for someone who also has a day job to get to his adminstrative tasks here on Babble. Heck, I can't even reply to all my emails in a couple of days sometimes, let alone a number of hours. And I suspect Dr. Bob's day job is busier than mine at the moment (although I could be busier if I didn't procrastinate so much!)
Anyway, I just wanted to post my concern about taking further action after 12 hours have passed (regarding your proposal in another thread), and about putting a halt to threads. The latter doesn't sound necessary or feasible to me.
I do realize that you care very much about making Babble a better place, and although I don't agree with your current suggestions, I do admire your caring.
gg
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 22:25:18
In reply to Re: Lou's summery toDr.Hsiung-procedure to halt thread » Lou Pilder, posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 22:04:22
gg,
You wrote,[...I don't think that putting a halt on a thread would keep people from posting similar...].
I propose that we have an experiment to find out if that will happen. I belive that the posting of a halt by another poster could be a "clue' to those in the thread to modify their posts in a new thread and that there is the posibility that a new thread will be extinct of the posts that were in the old thread that could have been of the nature that they are innapropriate on a mental health forum.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 22:50:34
In reply to Re: Lou's summery toDr.Hsiung-procedure to halt thread » Lou Pilder, posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 22:04:22
gg,
You wrote,[...12 hour window...].
My revised suggestion had no time period. In my suggestion, a poster could post a halt at any time.
The prpose of the halt,IMO, is to prevent further posts of the same nature.
I think that a try at this could not cause any harm, but others may have differant opinions.
Lou
Posted by verne on November 30, 2004, at 22:53:18
In reply to Re: Spike the Ball, posted by henrietta on November 30, 2004, at 19:08:56
I'm not trivializing The Holocaust but object to a kind of reverse hyper-sensitive racism that bullies others who don't share their beliefs.
We will never run out of reasons to build monuments and memorials to those who were murdered in atrocities. But why stop there? If we are setting aside words, let's set aside half our language for the millions massacred in Cambodia, Laos, Ruwanda and countless other places. And what about the millions of ukranians and gypsies murdered in WWII? Every life is precious. Let's memorialize and remember them ALL.
The Nazis exterminated millions of Communists, Czechs, Greeks, Gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, mentally and physically handicapped, Poles, resistance fighters, Russians, Serbs, Socialists, Spanish Republicans, trade unionists, Ukrainians, Yugoslavians, prisoners of war of many nations, and still others whose identity may never be recognized.(1) Their victims, according to one survivor of four different concentration camps, "were of some thirty nationalities, from Nepalese to Andorrans, and of a variety of racial and linguistic stocks ranging from Basques to Buriats and from Ladinos to Lapps".(2) When people were not immediately exterminated, they were sent to work and/or concentration camps. There the prisoners were divided into six penal categories and given patches on their clothing for identification purposes. Ordinary criminals were assigned green; political prisoners wore red; black was worn by asocials (slackers, prostitutes, procurers, etc.); homosexuals wore pink; conscientious objectors wore purple, and the Jewish people wore yellow."
Estimates of Non-Combatant Lives Lost During the Holocaust:
Ukrainians 5.5 - 7 million
Jews (of all countries) 6 million +
Russian POWs 3.3 million +
Russian Civilians 2 million +
Poles 3 million +
Yugoslavians 1.5 million +
Gypsies 200,000 - 500,000
Mentally/Physically Disabled 70,000- 250,000
Homosexuals Tens of thousands
Spanish Republicans Tens of thousands
Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500 - 5,000
Boy and Girl Scouts, Clergy, Communists, Czechs, Deportees, Greeks, Political Prisoners, Other POWs, Resistance Fighters, Serbs, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Others UnknownWhy is it allright when Mel Brooks makes outrageous movies parodying the vilest atrocities - including the Holocaust - but deep offense is taken when the mere word is mentioned elsewhere? Where's the offense with "Blazing Saddles" or "The Producers"?
Would it be politically incorrect to say that I lost a GYPSY relative in the Holocaust and an aunt on the 110th floor on 9/11? Or doesn't that rate?
Being offended has become an art form.
verne
Posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 22:56:30
In reply to Lou's reply to garden girl-12 horwndw » gardenergirl, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 22:50:34
It's hard to say if a trial could cause harm. I just am concerned that posters could "halt" all kinds of threads, causing chaos and confusion. Not to mention hurt feelings.
And call me cynical, but I wonder if people would really change their behavior if someone else called a halt to their thread. I can conceive of how some might continue out of spite.
My own experiment is to personally ask those who are upsetting to me to cease and desist in as civil a way as I can. I haven't had a great deal of reason to use this technique, but so far so good...although I can't take any credit if behavior changes. I think it's perfectly reasonable for others to make a direct and civil request to someone, although the outcome is not guaranteed, of course.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 22:59:31
In reply to Lou's reply to garden girl-12 horwndw » gardenergirl, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 22:50:34
Lou,
I'm not sure if your revised proposal is a revision of this original request:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/421736.htmlor of the first post suggesting a halt.
My comment about a 12 hour window was about the post I linked above. I did not mean to imply to others or to you that you were advocating a 12 hour window on halts.
gg
Posted by Gabbix2 on November 30, 2004, at 23:03:43
In reply to An art form?, posted by verne on November 30, 2004, at 22:53:18
Toph never referred to "a holocaust" he referred to Auchwitz.
Posted by verne on November 30, 2004, at 23:30:45
In reply to Re: An art form? » verne, posted by Gabbix2 on November 30, 2004, at 23:03:43
That would be a different matter. I just assumed by the responses that he had used the word "holocaust". My mistake. I guess I should read the entire thread.
Goes to show, I don't need much thread to hang myself.
verne
Posted by Gabbix2 on November 30, 2004, at 23:53:53
In reply to Re: An art form? » Gabbix2, posted by verne on November 30, 2004, at 23:30:45
>I guess I should read the entire thread.I have done that soooooooooo many times.
I've gotten quite good at apologizing : )
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