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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 100 to 124 of 156. Go back in thread:
Posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 12:10:32
In reply to Misrepresentation » Lou Pilder, posted by Jonathan on March 25, 2003, at 0:14:08
Thank you, Jonathan, for pointing that out, and for explaining (even to me!) what that exchange was all about!
By the way, I am a girl (woman, female -- whatever term anyone prefers for those of us humans with the XX chromosomes)!
While I do not think that everyone should just lie down and accept all authority and never think for oneself, I also respect rules and the rights of "management" to enforce them, especially if they are known to all parties beforehand. We could all choose to abandon this board if we don't like it, and that would be Dr. Bob's problem, not ours.
> Lou,
>
> If you quote what others have posted, please do not edit their words in a way which substantially changes their meaning.
>
> You claim that Ayuda wrote, in http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030221/msgs/211952.html :
>
> "...And yes, I believe that people who are incapable of understanding...have emotional problems...and can't see the simple answer is to just leave the site alone..."
>
> Shall we look at what (s)he really wrote? (I'm very sorry, Ayuda — I tried but I cannot infer your gender from your recent posts!). I have enclosed in «guillemets» the sections which you (Lou) deleted:
>
> "... I believe that people who are incapable of understanding «that they signed an agreement to use this site in a particular manner, and then who keep arguing with [Dr. Bob] about those parameters,» have emotional problems, «because» they can't see that the simple answer is to just leave the site alone."
>
> I see nothing wrong in omitting words which aren't essential to the argument, as I have omitted "And yes," from the beginning of the sentence; nor in changing, as I have, "him" to "[Dr. Bob]" because our removal of the sentence from its original context makes it no longer obvious to whom "him" was meant to refer.
>
> However, by deleting Ayuda's words "that they signed an agreement to use this site in a particular manner, and then who keep arguing with him about those parameters," you are not only transforming "understanding" from a transitive verb, the object of which is the noun phrase "that they signed an agreement to use this site in a particular manner", into an intransitive verb with the implicit meaning "understanding anything". You are also obscuring the fact that Ayuda is not talking about all who use the Admin Board, as you later imply with absolutely no justification, but only about those who, having agreed when they registered to observe Dr. Bob's rules, then use this board solely to argue persistently and specifically against those same rules with which they agreed to comply. I do not consider you to be such a person, nor do I believe that you think of yourself in that way.
>
> I am sorry, Lou, that you feel "extremely hurt" by Ayuda's post, but I think that the cause of your hurt is not the words that Ayuda used but your own, perhaps inadvertent, misquotation of them. I think this explains Ayuda's justifiably bewildered response, in http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030221/msgs/211992.html :
>
> "... I don't even understand how you are interpreting what I've said. I am at a loss for understanding your confusion."
>
> Your post concludes with the following words, which I find shockingly out of character for the civil and honourable gentleman I know you to be :)
>
> "I feel extreamly hurt by your statement because I feel that you are ... incapeable of understanding and... have emotional problems..."
>
> To ensure that no-one is misled by my deliberate misquotation of Lou's post, I wish to explain that I substituted an ellipsis (...) for the following words between "you are" and "incapable":
>
> "jumping to a conclusion about people that use the administrative board to request address of what [they percieve to be injustices] when they are invited to do so by Dr. Bob and then you conclude that they are {..."
>
> Please try to observe the Golden Rule, Lou — http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil :
>
> "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." — Matt. 7:12.
> "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. That is the law: all the rest is commentary." — Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
>
> Please treat the words that others have posted with the same respect which you would like others to show for your words.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Jonathan.
>
>
> > ayuda,
> > You wrote,[...And yes, I believe that people who are incapable of understanding...have emotional problems...and can't see the simple answer is to just leave the site alone...].
> > I feel extreamly hurt by your statement because I feel that you are jumping to a conclusion about people that use the administrative board to request address of what [they percieve to be injustices] when they are invited to do so by Dr. Bob and then you conclude that they are {...incapeable of understanding and... have emotional problems...].
> > Lou
>
Posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 12:24:18
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to NikkiT2's's post-FT2-B » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on March 25, 2003, at 11:53:36
> Maybe it would simply be easier not to paraphrase another poster, but to copy their exact words.
>
> Can I ask again why you prefer to paraphrase than to use the actual words?? I would betetr understand why you do this then.
>
> NikkiNikki -- My guess from reading the exchanges here, and of course it is just a guess because I do not know Lou personally, is that Lou is reading only the parts of our posts that will permit him to attack our statements. It is difficult to attack people when their actual statements are either 1) grammatically correct, or 2) innocuous.
Also, again this is a personal opinion from personal observations from this board only, it appears that Lou does not answer direct questions, though he asks a lot of them. I asked Lou a series of direct questions that he appears to have ignored, while I was civil and kind enough to answer all of his direct questions.
What his questions have to do with the Administration of Psycho-Babble, though, are quite obscure to me. Ayuda
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 12:32:45
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to NikkiT2's's post-FT2-B » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on March 25, 2003, at 11:53:36
NikkiT2,
You wrote,[...why do you prefer to paraphrase?...].
There is a great amount of differences in writing styles throughout the world and it is my feelings that these differences enrichen the discussions here. I respect other's writing styles and I preferr to use the style that I use because it is simply the way I like to write and I am open to requests for clarification when, my writing style could cause one to have a need for clarification. I do not consider anyone's writing style to constutute [misrepresentation], for if something needs to be clarified,I do not beleive that one can conclude that the writer was attempting to misrepresent just because the reader thinks that.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 25, 2003, at 12:36:39
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to NikkiT2's's post-FT2-B » NikkiT2, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 12:24:18
*smiles* Welcome to Psycho Babble ;)
Nikki xx
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 12:42:08
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to NikkiT2's's post-FT2-B » NikkiT2, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 12:24:18
ayuda,
You wrote,[...my guess is...Lou is only reading parts of our posts that will permit him to {attack} our statements...].
Again, I am deeply hurt that someone on a mental health board would even suggest, by saying that they are guessing, that another person here is {attacking} other's statements. I am not attacking anyone's statements, nor do I feel that I even have to defend against what I percieve as an accusation toward me that I am reading only parts of people's post that will premit me to attack other's statements.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 25, 2003, at 12:50:28
In reply to Lou's reply to NikkiT2's's post-FT2-C » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 12:32:45
Please can I ask that you never paraphrase me, but use my factual words.
Paraphrasing, as seen here, can totally confuse a situation. I, personally, find it quite dangerous to change anyones words when trying to make a point.
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 13:32:48
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to NikkiT2's's post-FT2-C » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on March 25, 2003, at 12:50:28
> Please can I ask that you never paraphrase me, but use my factual words.
>
> Paraphrasing, as seen here, can totally confuse a situation. I, personally, find it quite dangerous to change anyones words when trying to make a point.
>
> NikkiNikkiT2,
I feel that quotes have their place in discussion and that paraphrasing also has its place in a discussion and I respect others that choose to use the style of writing that is confortable to them. There is always room for anyone to construe or misconstrue something regardless of what form or style the writer chooses. I feel that tolerance to individual differences in writing style, while admitting that any style of writing has the potential to be unclear, could further the support and education aspects of this board by requesting clarification when one needs it to better understand what another has written. As for your request for me to accomodtate your preferences to not use paraphrasing, I could do that.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 13:52:09
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to NikkiT2's's post-FT2-C » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on March 25, 2003, at 12:50:28
NikkiT2,
You wrote,"Paraphrasing, as seen here, can totally confuse a situation."
Are you referring to the post by Jonathan to me? If so, could you clarify if the situation is, or is not confused to you? Could you state the sentance(s) involved that made you conclude, if you are making a conclusion,of such? If so then I could reply accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 14:19:19
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to NikkiT2's's post-FT2-B » NikkiT2, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 12:24:18
ayuda,
You wrote,[...I asked Lou direct questions that it appears that he has ignored...].
Could you provide me with any questions that you would like me to answer ? I am not ignoring your questions, just trying to {get to them} because I was answering other posts and some of your questions could requirer me to give a comprehensive answer that could be very long and involved.
Lou
Posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 16:31:08
In reply to Lou's response to ayuda's post-MQ » ayuda, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 14:19:19
> ayuda,
> You wrote,[...I asked Lou direct questions that it appears that he has ignored...].
> Could you provide me with any questions that you would like me to answer ? I am not ignoring your questions, just trying to {get to them} because I was answering other posts and some of your questions could requirer me to give a comprehensive answer that could be very long and involved.
> LouAny one of my posts from the other night that have "?" at the end of sentences would be what I am referring to. Do you have a problem with providing "long and involved" responses? You surely ask for a lot of them from others.
And as for your other post concerning my use of the term "attack," I know a verbal assault when I am faced with one.
Your posts do not appear to me to address any sort of Administrative issue re: Psycho-Babble, ther than your insinuations that Dr. Bob either 1) is anti-Semitic, or 2) permits anti-Semitic remarks and is thus hypocritical concerning the issue of "civility," so I am wondering if perhaps these issues should be taken up on another board (and I take that observation from at least two of your posts, one directed at me the other night and one directed at someone else, and if you want to know which ones, please peruse your responses over the past couple of days).
As for your feelings, stating that someone has disturbed your sensibilities because they point out that you are not discussing Administrative issues but instead are jumping on people's grammatical errors and re-writing their posts to serve your own purposes -- well, sorry if you feel put-down or abused, and I really mean that, but you do not seem to be engaged in constructive conversations with anyone here, so what reactions do you expect people to have?
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:14:24
In reply to Ayuda's response to two of Lou's posts of 3-25 » Lou Pilder, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 16:31:08
ayuda,
Below are some replys to your post:
1. I can not spend as much time answering here as ,perhaps, Dinah or Dreamerz or noa or NikkiT2 or some of the other names that you may see often here. I manage 1000s upon 1000s of shares of stock from 8:30Am till 4:00PM via the internat which does give me time between executions to post here. Also I am involved in a movie and I manage many properties. When I open the net in the morning, and there is a post directed to me, I feel that I have some sort of obligation to reply , although I am not saying that others should have that same obligation. Some times when I reply to one poster, a group of other posters will somehow appear and involve me in more discussion. That makes it hard to come back to the original poster that I was replying to. But I am interested in answering all of your requests and hope to do so soon.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on March 25, 2003, at 18:16:20
In reply to Re: using the option, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 11:28:55
>
> How do you split the sentences?Hi Lou. It's really very easy. Just go to the end of a line and hit "enter". That gives you a space in which to write.
I certainly understand you're wanting to use your own style, but perhaps using this option sometimes would save some keystrokes for you.
> Lou
>
Posted by Dinah on March 25, 2003, at 18:17:25
In reply to Lou's reply to ayuda's post-G1 » ayuda, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:14:24
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:19:37
In reply to Ayuda's response to two of Lou's posts of 3-25 » Lou Pilder, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 16:31:08
ayuda,
2. It has been a coutesy, but not a requierment, here to provide others with a URL when one wants a response from it rather than to requiere the other to hunt through the previous posts. I can do a hunt, but it could take much longer for me to reply than if you gave me the URL or just the question that you would like me to respond to.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:24:45
In reply to Re: using the option, posted by Dinah on March 25, 2003, at 18:16:20
Dinah,
Thanks for the help. That will make things much easier.
Lou
PS.. Are you OK now? What hurt you ?
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:29:35
In reply to Ayuda's response to two of Lou's posts of 3-25 » Lou Pilder, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 16:31:08
ayuda,
3. I am not in any type of verbal assult with anyone. I am sorry if you feel that way.
I hope the you will consider that my requests for clarification can be benifitial to not only me in order to reply accordingly, but also to the poster so that they can [rule out] possible misunderstandings that I may percieve in their post.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on March 25, 2003, at 18:30:38
In reply to Re: using the option » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:24:45
You did, Lou. By commenting on the frequency of my posting in a way that didn't sound particularly positive. I do have a job you know, and a family....
Posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 18:35:21
In reply to Lou's reply to ayuda's post-G1 » ayuda, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:14:24
> ayuda,
> Below are some replys to your post:
> 1. I can not spend as much time answering here as ,perhaps, Dinah or Dreamerz or noa or NikkiT2 or some of the other names that you may see often here. I manage 1000s upon 1000s of shares of stock from 8:30Am till 4:00PM via the internat which does give me time between executions to post here. Also I am involved in a movie and I manage many properties. When I open the net in the morning, and there is a post directed to me, I feel that I have some sort of obligation to reply , although I am not saying that others should have that same obligation. Some times when I reply to one poster, a group of other posters will somehow appear and involve me in more discussion. That makes it hard to come back to the original poster that I was replying to. But I am interested in answering all of your requests and hope to do so soon.
> Lou
>For someone who is that busy, you sure put out a lot of messages asking a lot of questions, but fewer answering them. And I don't recall involving you in my original post, you sent me 5 or 6 comments when I was replying to Dinah, so you can't blame your participation solely on other people. That's all I'm saying.
And, for someone who is so concerned with their own feelings when confronted, your insinuation that people like Dinah, NikkiT2, et al., have nothing better to do is fairly rude. Though you did not include me on that list, I just would like to mention that I am a full-time PhD student, I teach college history at a major US university, and I tutor gifted high school students and learning-disabled college student athletes at one of the nation's top NCAA schools, but this board gives me a lot of important information concerning my medications, so I try to be kind to people on it by responding to their inquiries. Perhaps the above-mentioned people are also busy but just share my respect for other members of this site.
And again, I am suggesting that these conversations don't belong on Psycho-Babble Administration, and that perhaps a re-direct is in order.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:42:27
In reply to Re: using the option » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on March 25, 2003, at 18:30:38
Dinah,
I am sorry that you took it that way, for it was not my intention. What could also be deduced is that your are more dedicated to this board than I and involve yourself in many many threads, and innitiate your own threads whereas I am only involving myself in threads that involve me. I have stopped the [7 gates] here, and I do not innitiate threads anymore as I used to do. I even stopped [which one does not belong, what's wrong with this picture, games...],(which dreamerz has contributed to).
I apologise.
Lou
Posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 18:44:43
In reply to Lou's reply to yahuda's post-G3 » ayuda, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:29:35
> ayuda,
> 3. I am not in any type of verbal assult with anyone. I am sorry if you feel that way.
> I hope the you will consider that my requests for clarification can be benifitial to not only me in order to reply accordingly, but also to the poster so that they can [rule out] possible misunderstandings that I may percieve in their post.
> LouLou, since I do have lots of better things to do, this will be my last response to you, and the last time I read Admin, because I would rather be discussing my medications and side-effects with people who are using Psycho-Babble to be helpful and not to play verbal cat and mouse games.
No, actually, I consider your "requests for clarification" to be unwarranted (as in the case of pointing out Nikki's typos), confrontational, lacking in any significance whatsoever to the original conversations, and just plain annoying. I am not so stupid or naive as to believe that just because someone puts "this will help me understand you better" that their otherwise smart-alek or insulting comments are harmless. And you can leave off the patronizing remarks, "I feel sorry for you," because those are the most insulting. I'm sure that you are being genuine, but just because you are being genuine does not mean that you are being kind, helpful, or harmless, as can be seen in other people's responses to you.
And sorry that you don't have the time to re-read what you have written, but I don't have time to be your research assistant.
Bye.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:47:50
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to ayuda's post-G1 » Lou Pilder, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 18:35:21
ayuda,
I was replying to Jonathan's post this morning and others joined in the discussion, which is fine. In you post, i was already a discussant , as I remember, in the thread that you posted on and thearfore I had an interet in your post because it was relevant to the entire discussion that , as i remember, was a participant.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on March 25, 2003, at 18:51:42
In reply to Re: using the option » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:42:27
Thank you, Lou. That does sound a bit better. I appreciate the clarification.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:54:24
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to yahuda's post-G3 » Lou Pilder, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 18:44:43
ayuda,
Sorry, but I feel that I , at times when a person's post could be construed different ways, to ask for clarification so that I can respond accordingly and I feel that asking for clarification is not confrontational, and insted of lacking in significance, the requests could lead to greater significance for the clarification gives more light on the subject and could rule out ambiguities.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 18:56:15
In reply to Re: using the option » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on March 25, 2003, at 18:51:42
Dinah,
Thank you for your response, for I was hoping that you would [...give the poster the benifit of the doubt...]
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2003, at 19:08:28
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to yahuda's post-G3 » Lou Pilder, posted by ayuda on March 25, 2003, at 18:44:43
ayuda,
I consider your statement that I use smart-alec and/or insulting comments to invoke from me a request for you to identify those statements of mine that you include in your conclusion that they are smart-alec or insulting so that I could respond accordingly and, possibly clarify that they were not smart-alsc or insulting, for it was not my intention to do so. There is a principle here that you [...give the poster the benifit of the doubt...] and that is another reason that I ask for clarification so that theer can be a review of any doubts. Now you have writen that you will not respond to your post to me and that leaves me with no venue to ask you for clarification. I feel hurt when people tell me something and then deny me the opportunity to ask them for clarification.
Lou
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