![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
*Possible trigger. Please proceed with caution*
Hi,
I'm beginning to lose all hope. I am desperately suicidal and I have a very concrete pretty fool proof plan. I have told my pdoc that. I have even written my suicide notes. I have has suicidal ideation all my life but when push came to shove I never had the guts to do something really lethal. I don't plan on taking an overdose and going into a coma. If I do it, I will complete it. I have told him that this is the first time I am desperate enough to do something really lethal even if it isnt a peaceful way to go.
I have very treatment resistant bipolar depression and there are drugs that work but I cannot take due to side effects (like antipsychotics due to TD)
My doctor has put me on 10 mg of Parnate and is not treating this with any urgency- calling me to see him at his convenience. The parnate is not making suicidal feelings worse- it's just not helping at all.
I hate this feeling, its like dangling by a tread. I just want to get rid of it anyway possible.
My pdoc is a clueless freak and once told me that 'you know, people who really want to kill themselves will find a way' It was full of innuendo.
Sadly I am stuck in India where the worst possible psychiatric treatment is available and he is actually the only one with ANY real drug knowledge. )because he goes to the US annually for the APC and such)
I want to suggest something to him because he is advising me to 'sleep it off with klonopin'. I'm sick to death of sleeping my life away and am really fed up.Anything I can suggest to him in terms of drugs?
ECT has been ruled out for me by 2 leading ECT pdocs in the US- they don't feel it will help. Plus there is no way I am letting them perform ECT on me here in India.PS: Hospitalization is not an option because no hospital will take on psychiatric patients due to the risk to suicide.
I'm at a loss and I am looking up possible options to suggest to him (since he expects me to do all the research it seems)Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Thank you and hope I didn't distress anyone
D
Posted by sam K on October 6, 2009, at 12:41:09
In reply to What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
lithium has the "anti-suicide" effects, but I dont know. I have treamtent resistant too, but im taking litihum right now and its okay.. Makes me a bit cloudy in the head but is better than being manic and thinking irrationally
Posted by softheprairie on October 6, 2009, at 12:42:16
In reply to What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
My psychiatrist has told me that the only two meds proven to decrease suicidality are lithium and Clozaril/clozapine. I'm sorry that that may not be what you wanted to hear. Also, I'm not sure if it is up to date. I bet there are others, but that companies are reluctant to do the testing to prove it, because it would be expensive to do trials with people who are actively suicidal. (That's just my guess.) Personally, I haven't tried either of those yet, but when hospitalized I was once given Zyprexa zydis, which is an immediate-release, dissolve-in-your-mouth, fast acting form of Zyprexa, and I was really impressed with the immediate power it had to calm me down. (And I wasn't manic or psychotic, just very depressed and I got a little peeved about the lack of therapy/treatment and lack of access to a doctor at the psych hospital, and when I cried out at the nurses' station something like "what do I have to do to get treatment here?," a technician (?) gave me the Zyprexa zydis.)
I had taken the non-immediate Zyprexa years before, and I think I reported feeling somewhat better with it, but now my memory is kind of murky from that time -- I'm not sure when I went over to Seroquel (or was it Seroquel before Zyprexa?) or why I stopped them -- I'm not sure if it was weight gain or tiredness, maybe? Zyprexa is terrible about causing weight gain and diabetes, but I firmly believe that if someone is actively suicidal, that the need justifies the use of Zyprexa, even tho long-term use has the weight and diabetes problems. Luckily, my mood has been much better recently, and I am pretty pleased with my med cocktail. If I am feeling bad now, I have permission to take extra perphenazine PRN.Are you being cautious about upping the MAO inhibitor due to side effects at the low dose? I think you need a higher dose to get antidepressant effect.
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2009, at 13:07:55
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » delna, posted by softheprairie on October 6, 2009, at 12:42:16
I've heard also that zyprexa works for suicidal thoughts. So if hospitalization isn't allowed are you saying because of suicidal risk what is the hospital for? I don't get it? Can you get to the US as you said you have been here or are you from here? I'm sorry you feel so bad I think I can relate at this time. I did think Indian pdocs were very good though? Phillipa
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 6, 2009, at 13:09:16
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » delna, posted by softheprairie on October 6, 2009, at 12:42:16
Dear Delna:
I am so sorry you feel that way. It's painful.
I, also, have had suicidal thoughts all my life.
Parnate is the first med that has ever silenced them.
I take 70mg Parnate, 25mg Nortriptyline, 200mg Provigil.
You might need something fast acting, temporarily, like SoftPrairie suggests.Don't listen to that nasty black beast. You CAN feel better and you WILL feel better!!
Hugs to you in India! Gayle
Posted by jasmineneroli on October 6, 2009, at 13:21:54
In reply to What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
**Trigger Potential**
Delna:Do you have "suicide hot lines", or "mental health hot lines" where you are? If so I urge you to call.
If you feel yourself in immediate danger of suicide at this time, follow the instructions of the personnel at the Hotline call centre, or go to your Pdoc's office, if the hospital is not an option. Regardless of whether or not you have an appointment. OR, go to your primary care Dr.
They have an obligation to stabilize you, in an emergency. No matter which country you're in.
How about a different city, for doctors or treatment?
As to a drug therapy plan, I agree with the suggestions of Lithium and either Zyprexa or Seroquel. Not had personal experience of these combo's, but read that this is the way to go.
Then find a supportive therapist or counsellor.
Best wishes & good luck! Keep us advised.
J
Posted by softheprairie on October 6, 2009, at 13:26:04
In reply to What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
I reread your original post and am now reminded that you wrote that antipsychotics are not an option due to TD. Is that even with the newer-generation ones? I thought the big draw of the atypical antipsychotics (such as Zyprexa) was the much reduced chance of TD. Clozaril/clozapine may still be an option, too, if you +/or doc will agree to blood testing for a different side effect it can cause.
I am also reminded of another poster on psychobabble once who was also suicidal and not in the US, and he responded well and quickly to "Trivastal retard," which is not approved for use in the US, but is in others. You should probably search a bit more on that one, I don't know too much about it. But I remember being struck by how amazing it was that it helped that man quickly. If I recall correctly, it was made by the same French company that makes tianeptine and chooses not to do business in the US, or, there was some other speculation on why they haven't applied to the FDA, maybe one theory was that the company didn't have the financing capability to do the big trials the FDA requires? But I don't think the FDA rejected Trivastal for cause; I think it's never been attempted to be approved here. So India may be an ideal place to get some?
Posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 13:51:51
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by sam K on October 6, 2009, at 12:41:09
> lithium has the "anti-suicide" effects, but I dont know. I have treamtent resistant too, but im taking litihum right now and its okay.. Makes me a bit cloudy in the head but i. s better than being manic and thinking irrationally
Yes I know about Lithium and I have tried it many years ago. It did nothing but made me fat. It honestly had no effect on me even at a good dose.
Thanks for the suggestion
D
Posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 13:58:18
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » delna, posted by softheprairie on October 6, 2009, at 12:42:16
> My psychiatrist has told me that the only two meds proven to decrease suicidality are lithium and Clozaril/clozapine. I'm sorry that that may not be what you wanted to hear. Also, I'm not sure if it is up to date. I bet there are others, but that companies are reluctant to do the testing to prove it, because it would be expensive to do trials with people who are actively suicidal. (That's just my guess.) Personally, I haven't tried either of those yet, but when hospitalized I was once given Zyprexa zydis, which is an immediate-release, dissolve-in-your-mouth, fast acting form of Zyprexa, and I was really impressed with the immediate power it had to calm me down. (And I wasn't manic or psychotic, just very depressed and I got a little peeved about the lack of therapy/treatment and lack of access to a doctor at the psych hospital, and when I cried out at the nurses' station something like "what do I have to do to get treatment here?," a technician (?) gave me the Zyprexa zydis.)
> I had taken the non-immediate Zyprexa years before, and I think I reported feeling somewhat better with it, but now my memory is kind of murky from that time -- I'm not sure when I went over to Seroquel (or was it Seroquel before Zyprexa?) or why I stopped them -- I'm not sure if it was weight gain or tiredness, maybe? Zyprexa is terrible about causing weight gain and diabetes, but I firmly believe that if someone is actively suicidal, that the need justifies the use of Zyprexa, even tho long-term use has the weight and diabetes problems. Luckily, my mood has been much better recently, and I am pretty pleased with my med cocktail. If I am feeling bad now, I have permission to take extra perphenazine PRN.
>
> Are you being cautious about upping the MAO inhibitor due to side effects at the low dose? I think you need a higher dose to get antidepressant effect.
>
>
>
> I think the doctor is planning to increase the dose. But the sedation is bad.
I was on Zyprexia in hospital too for a psychotic break and yes it has terrible weight gain. Also i have developed symptoms of TD (which went away after Geodon withdrawl) so antipsychotics are not an option 4 me.
Infact Geodon had a very strong anti-suicidal effect on me in a matter of days. Too bad I had to give it up.
Thanks for your help
D
Posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 14:02:45
In reply to Re Delna Trigger** Added for You Suicidal, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2009, at 13:07:55
> I've heard also that zyprexa works for suicidal thoughts. So if hospitalization isn't allowed are you saying because of suicidal risk what is the hospital for? I don't get it? Can you get to the US as you said you have been here or are you from here? I'm sorry you feel so bad I think I can relate at this time. I did think Indian pdocs were very good though? Phillipa
Firstly Phillipa thanks for adding the trigger thing- I don't want to affect anyone badly. Psychiatry is SO backward here sometimes they suggest marriage as a treatment. I was in the US just months ago seeing a really good doctor. I wasnt suicidal then just sleepy so he was dealing with that. I think if I get well I will aim to start an advocacy group for mental health which may lead to a hospital (in the long run)
Zyprexia is not an option for me becaus of TD risk which i developed with geodon (my miracle drug )
Thank you for your help and empathy
Love
D
Posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 14:05:20
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 6, 2009, at 13:09:16
> Dear Delna:
> I am so sorry you feel that way. It's painful.
> I, also, have had suicidal thoughts all my life.
> Parnate is the first med that has ever silenced them.
> I take 70mg Parnate, 25mg Nortriptyline, 200mg Provigil.
> You might need something fast acting, temporarily, like SoftPrairie suggests.
>
> Don't listen to that nasty black beast. You CAN feel better and you WILL feel better!!
> Hugs to you in India! Gayle
>
>
>
Thank you for your support. Maybe he will increase the parnate when I see him tomorrow. He's titrating so slowy (he started me on only 10mg) which is such a small dose. It frustrates me that he doesnt take me seriously.
Thanks again
D
Posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 14:09:34
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » delna, posted by jasmineneroli on October 6, 2009, at 13:21:54
> **Trigger Potential**
> Delna:
>
> Do you have "suicide hot lines", or "mental health hot lines" where you are? If so I urge you to call.
>
> If you feel yourself in immediate danger of suicide at this time, follow the instructions of the personnel at the Hotline call centre, or go to your Pdoc's office, if the hospital is not an option. Regardless of whether or not you have an appointment. OR, go to your primary care Dr.
>
> They have an obligation to stabilize you, in an emergency. No matter which country you're in.
>
> How about a different city, for doctors or treatment?
>
> As to a drug therapy plan, I agree with the suggestions of Lithium and either Zyprexa or Seroquel. Not had personal experience of these combo's, but read that this is the way to go.
>
> Then find a supportive therapist or counsellor.
>
> Best wishes & good luck! Keep us advised.
>
> J
>
>
Am in India where mental health is considered a joke. No hotlines or anything. I grew up in the Uk and there they take suicidal feelings very seriously and have many hotlines.
I may add Lithium although it hasn't worked for me in the past. Zyprexia is not an option because of TD risk which I developed with Geodon.
If push comes to shove I may go back to London to my old psychiatrist who will hospitalize me and monitor things.Thanks for your concern
D
Posted by Maxime on October 6, 2009, at 16:42:30
In reply to What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
Hi
I am very sorry that you are feeling this bad. Sadly, I am right there with you at the moment.
I don't think 10 mg of Parnate is going to accomplish much. Is there any reason why you are not on a higher dosage?
I don't know what to say other than you are not alone.
Posted by bleauberry on October 6, 2009, at 19:44:19
In reply to What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
Well, if we use analytical research as a guide, Lithium fits the profile. Zyprexa does also, but I understand the APs are not an option for you due to TD? But then again, one has to ask, which is worse, TD or death? And what is the degree of TD? Severe paralyzing? Moderate inconvenience? Minor? Important questions.
If we look to experience rather than science, then I would say Ritalin.
It makes sense that the first immediate thing that should be done is to increase Parnate at the fastest rate you can tolerate.
India is well known for unique potent herbs. I can't help but wonder why they are not in your arsenal? Drugs have considerable limitations and weaknesses. When combined with certain herbs that support the body as a whole in addition to relieving the symptoms, outcomes can be greatly enhanced and hastened.
Do you have a calendar handy? Please write another post on October 14. On that day, please submit another post on how that day is going, what you had to eat, what the weather is like, anything going on in the town or city you live in? I'm very interested to hear all that. I will be in and out until then and not likely to touch base until then. So I will look forward to you telling me all you can about India and your day.
In the meantime, stay in touch on other threads and start new ones. Visit the other forums here. But remember Oct 14.
Lithium, Ritalin, Increase Parnate, Herbs.
Another quick help, though it is hard and probably not what anyone feeling real bad wants to do, go out and run. Run at a steady pace, not too fast, get breathing hard, and just keep running. 30minutes to an hour minimum. Stop and walk to catch your breath, then start running again. You'll be totally exhausted and have some sore muscles, but you will also experience a flood of good-emotion hormones and neurotransmitters that you body is not accustomed to, and it will feel like relief. It can last a day. If your depression is caused by an underlying unsuspected organism infection, not at all unlikely (Lyme, Candida, protozoa, Babesia, worms, and a dozen others) the running will flood them with heat and oxygen, which they hate. You'll force them into dormancy and partial death for a short while, giving you some relief.
Eagerly waiting to see what's going on on October 14.
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2009, at 20:17:22
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » delna, posted by bleauberry on October 6, 2009, at 19:44:19
BB do we know the physical condition of poor Delna or age? No. I used to be a runner but good training is walk, run not very long. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2009, at 20:19:08
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » jasmineneroli, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 14:09:34
Delna I'm apologizing for speaking of you as a third party. London sounds like an excellent idea. love Phillipa
Posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 22:21:54
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » delna, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2009, at 20:19:08
No, no that is fine :) I know you are just concerned.
I'm 35 but so very, very unfit. I have literally spent my whole life sleeping/ in bed in my night gown so exercise really kills me. I got a yoga teacher to come home and he remarked at how strange it is that my muscles shake uncontrollably when I exert myself- being unfit is the reason. Anyway I had to stop because I kept feeling I would start crying in class as I would suddenly lose the will to live and couldn't motivate myself to carry on.
But once I am better (yes I am feeling hopeful thanks to all the positive vibes people here have been giving me) that I intend to start again. Yoga is really fabulous for weight as well as everything else. Right now I don't even have the will to leave the house (very common for me) let alone go for a walk.
I will reconsider London if my appointment with the pdoc is fruitless today.
Thanks for all your help
Love
DDelna I'm apologizing for speaking of you as a third party. London sounds like an excellent idea. love Phillipa
Posted by delna on October 7, 2009, at 0:36:08
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » delna, posted by bleauberry on October 6, 2009, at 19:44:19
> Well, if we use analytical research as a guide, Lithium fits the profile. Zyprexa does also, but I understand the APs are not an option for you due to TD? But then again, one has to ask, which is worse, TD or death? And what is the degree of TD? Severe paralyzing? Moderate inconvenience? Minor? Important questions.
I think Lithium may be the answer although I have had it before for several months in the past at a good dose and it did nothing for me. It didn't make me a zombie or anything but just made me really fat (not that this is an issue right now. But regardless it didn't help at all and I was suicidal and self-destructive then too. I must add that Lamictal really helped initially but now it just contains my mood and stops me from going high. I am a wierdo because increasing Lamictal makes me aggressive ( bizzare)
I have a condition which is very rare known as tardive pain syndrome and the pain is in the genital region (sorry if that is TMI) which makes it excruciating. I'm very, very lucky that when I got off the Geodon the pain vanished but it may not go the next time. Anti-psychotics have been contraindicated for me by my Neurologist and psychiatrist (both Indian and American).If the pain comes back I can't live with it. I tried really hard because Geodon was a miracle for me and for the first time since I was 12 (am now 35) I was normal and had a job too! I still cry about having to give it up- it really killed me to do so but eventually the pain was way to much. It actually made me want to throw myself out of the window even though I was really happy mood wise and energy wise. No drug worked on it at all.....and I tried them all. :(
>
> If we look to experience rather than science, then I would say Ritalin.Sadly Ritalin is not an option for me. Have been challenged with it many times (because of fatigue) and it de-stabilizes because I have bipolar. By that I mean I am impulsive and hysterical and show typical symptoms of dysphoric mania which itself makes me suicidal. I think in this state it is seriously dangerous.
>
> It makes sense that the first immediate thing that should be done is to increase Parnate at the fastest rate you can tolerate.Yes, I am going to discuss this with my doctor today. Alternatively he will switch me to effexor because it is easier to tolerate at higher doses (have had it before) and I can titrate up fast (but without the washout period- dangerous I know but what are my options really.) Parnate is really sedating which is why he has started me on a low dose I guess, since I am by nature a sleepy person who needs upto 400mg Provigil and 2 wellbutrins (and caffeine pills) to stay awake even when I am on a non- sedating drug!
>
> India is well known for unique potent herbs. I can't help but wonder why they are not in your arsenal? Drugs have considerable limitations and weaknesses. When combined with certain herbs that support the body as a whole in addition to relieving the symptoms, outcomes can be greatly enhanced and hastened.These herbs are really potent and chemical in nature (as are all psychoactive agents) and hence are pretty dangerous.Many commonly used ones here are defined as poisons by the WHO. What makes them worse in terms of safety is that they are unrefined unlike approved drugs and contain alot of contaminants. Ayurveda works for some things but not without serious interactions especially with any CNS drugs. Infact especially with Parnate. But I am trying homeopathy side by side as well as fish oil and vitamin B12 which are benign.
>> Do you have a calendar handy? Please write another post on October 14. On that day, please submit another post on how that day is going, what you had to eat, what the weather is like, anything going on in the town or city you live in? I'm very interested to hear all that. I will be in and out until then and not likely to touch base until then. So I will look forward to you telling me all you can about India and your day.
Yes, I will. Thank you so much for your concern.
You cannot imagine how much that helps me.> In the meantime, stay in touch on other threads and start new ones. Visit the other forums here. But remember Oct 14.
>
> Lithium, Ritalin, Increase Parnate, Herbs.
>
> Another quick help, though it is hard and probably not what anyone feeling real bad wants to do, go out and run. Run at a steady pace, not too fast, get breathing hard, and just keep running. 30minutes to an hour minimum. Stop and walk to catch your breath, then start running again. You'll be totally exhausted and have some sore muscles, but you will also experience a flood of good-emotion hormones and neurotransmitters that you body is not accustomed to, and it will feel like relief. It can last a day. If your depression is caused by an underlying unsuspected organism infection, not at all unlikely (Lyme, Candida, protozoa, Babesia, worms, and a dozen others) the running will flood them with heat and oxygen, which they hate. You'll force them into dormancy and partial death for a short while, giving you some relief.Sorry to sound so negative on all fronts but I promise you exercise makes me ANGRY.I always joke that it releases the wrong neurotransmitters for me. I actually start becoming agitated and aggressive (verbally)with random people on the street. I am not normally aggressive at all. I think I need to be in the right state of mind to do something like run. Been trying yoga but even that was proving too much for me. But I do plan to restart once I am better because as you say exercise (as long as it is not too vigorous) helps!
Also I have been checked for every organism under the sun (because I did my masters and was exposed to pathogens and I insisted on being tested) but it all came clear. I have always hoped I simply had an infection- maybe it would at least explain the darn fatigue but no luck there. I've had so many tests for infections (including exotic ones because in India we have the ALL ;-) ) and blood tests to rule out organic causes but nothing explains it (the fatigue of the bipolar. Funnily enough before I ever accepted I had a psychiatric condition yet was suicidal my sister gave me great hope by telling me that perhaps I just had mercury in my fillings and to go get checked. So I have always been looking for alternative explanations (including demonic possession!!! )because I hate drugs (but have come to realize that they are really the only things that help)
>
> Eagerly waiting to see what's going on on October 14.thank you so much again. Sorry for being so negative on all your good suggestions. Frankly I would have suggested these excellent things to someone myself but in my case I seem to have a problem with everything. And sorry for such a long post........
lots of Love
DPS: Will report on 14th. take care while you are away..
Posted by viper1431 on October 7, 2009, at 2:04:53
In reply to What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
I went through something similar last year and for some reason lexepro worked (even though ssri's hadn't in the past). It actually got rid of the suicidal thoughts within a couple hours of the first dose which again is strange in itself.
Klonpin made everything a lot worse so watch out for that if you are using it.
Posted by delna on October 7, 2009, at 4:08:51
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by viper1431 on October 7, 2009, at 2:04:53
> I went through something similar last year and for some reason lexepro worked (even though ssri's hadn't in the past). It actually got rid of the suicidal thoughts within a couple hours of the first dose which again is strange in itself.
>
> Klonpin made everything a lot worse so watch out for that if you are using it.
Thanks for the reply.
Infact I just withdrew from Lexapro ( I became suicidal despite being on it) because it was doing nothing (except controlling my OCD).
I know about Klonpin- my pdoc in the Us had warned me that it is infact a depressant and makes depression worse. Yet this doctor here is giving me no other options but to take large doses of it to 'knock myself out" and get over the suicidal period (!?)
Take care
D
Posted by bleauberry on October 7, 2009, at 9:32:12
In reply to Re: best drug for suicidal thoughts? trigger » bleauberry, posted by delna on October 7, 2009, at 0:36:08
> Also I have been checked for every organism under the sun (because I did my masters and was exposed to pathogens and I insisted on being tested) but it all came clear. I have always hoped I simply had an infection- maybe it would at least explain the darn fatigue but no luck there. I've had so many tests for infections (including exotic ones because in India we have the ALL ;-) ) and blood tests to rule out organic causes but nothing explains it (the fatigue of the bipolar. Funnily enough before I ever accepted I had a psychiatric condition yet was suicidal my sister gave me great hope by telling me that perhaps I just had mercury in my fillings and to go get checked. So I have always been looking for alternative explanations (including demonic possession!!! )because I hate drugs (but have come to realize that they are really the only things that help)
>I'm glad I got another chance to talk with you. Thank you very much. Very cool talking with you in India.
I wanted to comment on the tests. There are very few tests that have accuracy. There are infectious diseases that hide within our own cells, such as mycoplasma, that completely evade tests and our own immune system. They become a part of our own cells, causing the incredible fatigue, illneses, and disabling of multiple bodily systems.
Even as common as Lyme disease is, the most accurate tests are only roughly 70% accurate. Hundreds of people are misdiagnosed, given a lable such as Fibro, CFS, MS, psychiatric. It is a common happening for those people to discover they Herx badly and then show remarkable improvement when at some point they were given an antibiotic for some unrelated condition. Thus the accidental discovery/diagnosis was made. This happens every day across the world.
Tests for infectious diseases have a high risk of sentencing an innocent person to life in prison with no chance of parole. Because they come up negative when the person is highly infected. Many of these organisms are absolute genius at evasion and self-protection. Mankind has not yet developed reliable tests. They are working on it, but we aren't there yet.
It is easy to rule in or out with various non-prescription agents. Coptis...wide spectrum antibiotic and antifungal, used against Lyme, leprosy, and syphilis. Artemisin...used against protozoa and Babesia and worms. There are a wide variety of potent antimicrobials. Grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, andrographis, japanese knotwood (major source of the popular antiaging supplement resveratrol), oil of oregano. All of these are quite potent, wide spectrum, and yet very low or no toxicity and can be taken longterm...pharmaceutical antibiotics do not fit that profile.
One of the most potent of all...garlic...and it has a very low molecular weight allowing it to cross the blood brain barrier easily to do its work in the nervous system, often unachievable with madmade ABX. Its benefits come from the smelly part...allicin...so de-ordorized garlic supplements have weak potency. Supplements are available as pure Allicin. If taken as raw garlic bulbs, up to 8 cloves per day are needed. Do not cook. Take at the end of a meal for proper stomach PH and allicin metabolism. This is a really easy diagnostic tool...though admittedly smelly for the 4 to 7 days you would do it as a test.
Many infectious diseases are a clinical diagnosis, not a lab diagnosis. Mankind does not have the tools yet to test accurately for many suspected organisms, not even common ones like Lyme or Babesia or Bartonella or Chlamydia Pneumonia or Candida. Tests are available, but not trustworthy as the sole means of diagnosis. It is the clinical picture that matters the most, and the provocation of a Herx reaction to confirm a suspect.
The best diagnostic tool is a blind challenge test with potent low toxicity safe substances that organisms have not developed resistance to in many centuries of use. The above mentioned ones for example. These are all used by the top heavy hitter infectious disease doctors that blend Western and Eastern medicine for improved outcomes.
So what happens when you try these?
1. Nothing.
2. You feel a little better almost right away, and then a lot worse.
3. You feel a lot worse right away.#2 andd #3 are highly diagnostic. These herbs will do practically nothing to someone non-infected. They might just be foods or healthy plants to eat. To the ill person, there will be a serious die-off reaction.
That is the best way to test.
I wanted to mention all this because as I reviewed your symptoms and bizarre reactions to various meds, herbs, and running, there is to my knowledge no other possible explanation that makes more sense for disrupting the body in such a profound way as an infectious organism. Can you think of a better explanation? Of all of them that came to mind, none came close to fitting your presentation and history.
Mercury is certainly another one. Even without chelation, most people do improve in a noticeable way when the source of mercury (amalgams) is removed. Since that hasn't happened with you, I go full circle back to the infectious agents. They were your initial gut instinct, and I believe you were correct right from the start.
I am not a doctor. I call it as I see it. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it probably is one.
Posted by Zyprexa on October 7, 2009, at 12:40:48
In reply to What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts?, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 11:23:22
Zyprexa has no TD. Very good drug.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 7, 2009, at 18:23:07
In reply to Re: What is the best drug for suicidal thoughts? » delna, posted by Zyprexa on October 7, 2009, at 12:40:48
Delna,
Maybe this is off the wall. Can you consult the American Embassy about getting the medication and care you need? Or have someone on your behalf? Would this expose you to an unwanted hospitalization or unwanted notoriety? More parnate? At a faster rate? Phone consult with a doctor in the states who knows you and can order scripts? Sorry to pepper you with questions--no need to reply.
I'm so sorry you are feeling this poorly.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2009, at 19:26:51
In reply to Re: drug for suicidal thoughts? trigger » Phillipa, posted by delna on October 6, 2009, at 22:21:54
Delna how did the appointment go today? Love Phillipa
Posted by delna on October 8, 2009, at 10:51:15
In reply to Re: drug for suicidal thoughts? trigger » delna, posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2009, at 19:26:51
> Delna how did the appointment go today? Love Phillipa
Thanks for asking Phillipa :)
It was OK. I was so fed up that I wasn't even going to go but my parents forced me.
I met my pdoc and he increased the Parnate to 20mg. I don't want to speak too soon but I do feel better (a bit)
I realized that he is rather ignorant when it comes to Parnate. he has been pushing it on me for years so when my mum asked how many people he had treated with it he said 7!!! Then he panicked and said 15 :) I asked him if I should just switch to Effexor high dose but he said 'no' he feels this is really the right drug for me but I must give it time.
But i still have alot to work out about the Parnate - like how much provigil I can add. He didn't know either but he said he will find out.
So all in all its been an okay day. I haven't left the house still or taken any calls but then I don't leave the house for months at a time (except when I was on Geodon and couldn't bear doing nothing). I'm just going to take it as it comes and hopefully get through this bad episodeI am so grateful to all of you guys on this board as it is this interaction with others who have been 'there' that has helped me cope. My parents haven't a clue what it feels like to be suicidal and none of my 'friends' really care.
So thanks again
with love
D
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