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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by BLKVETTES on September 15, 2003, at 23:30:11
In reply to Re:lfrom paxil to Lexapro « leedsman, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2003, at 23:06:15
> [Posted by leedsman on September 14, 2003, at 12:55:52
>
> In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020609/msgs/109458.html]
>
> > Thanks, for you replies. I have trouble in the morning, with muscle aches, also allergy type feelings, tiredness and no motivation today, I usually have to force myself out of bed to go to work, but since I have off today, I feel tired and do not feel like doing anything. I am starting my 5th week of Lexapro 10 Mg. today and I hope this will soon pass, because the frustration leads to me feeling hopelesness. I also have alittle blurry vision this past week and the foggy unclear thinking.
> >Hey Dr. Bob that link did not not exist when I tried to go there. I was curious to what it was. take care Dr. Bob, this is a first LOL
Posted by leedsman on September 16, 2003, at 1:48:48
In reply to Re:lfrom paxil to Lexapro « leedsman, posted by BLKVETTES on September 15, 2003, at 23:30:11
Dr. Bob . I could not pull up your link also, Could you try again.
Posted by Peter on September 16, 2003, at 5:42:03
In reply to Re: Lexapro troubles - day 11 » Peter , posted by Mariposa on September 15, 2003, at 21:13:57
> > I began 5mg Lexapro 11 days ago. I had some GI upset and lethargy for the first 4 days. My pdoc had me increase to 10mg on day 7.
> > I also take adderall 30-35mg and klonopin 3mg.
> > The day I began 10mg (daY 7), I really thought I was beginning to feel better - like the med was starting to work. My social phobia improved and I felt like I was beginning to gain interest again in everyday things - something my depression prevented me from being able to do.
> > However, since that day, my mood has gone down again. I feel much more irritable, somnolent, and socially avoidant - just more symptomatic overall.
> > What's going on? Was that day just a psychosomatic reaction to increasing the dose?
> > Shouldn't I be starting to feel better already?
> > And what's with the increased irritability? Is that a common, acute transient SE that passes?
> > Or am I having a bad reaction? Does this med just not work well for me?
> > I've been on SSRI+stim+klonopin combos in the past, and the synergies between all 3 seemed to work well for me; the klonopin+stim helps different areas of my social anxiety and ADD/impulsivity, while the SSRI's usually 'smoothed over' any ups and downs or anxiety caused by the stim and helped with more over-arching depression/anxiety. Now everything seems a mess - in fact, my adderall doses don't even seem to work anymore, as if the lexapro is blunting its efficacy. Each adderall dose just makes me more exhausted.
> > I'm hoping the irritability and lethargy will subside and the synergies will all work together well. If not, I fear this is going to be another of a million 'cocktails' I've had to taper off of and begin again from scratch, and I'm just so tired of doing that, I don't think I'd be able to handle it again.
> > Peter
>
> I have no experience with anything but Lex....and Lex can take 6-8 weeks until you begin to feel *benefits*. I had a long list of very intense side effects starting @ 5mg, most of which subsided by 4th week, increased to 10mg at 5th wk. I did not know for sure Lex was working until week 9. I had bouts of deep depression and anxiety around weeks 4-5, and general blah feeling wk 6-8.>>> But I thought Lex was supposed to take a shorter time to kick in than other SSRI's, not longer! 6-8 weeks is longer than it took Prozac to work with me. I guess it's different for everone, but I heard some people began to feel the benefits at week 1 or 2 with lex.
Posted by Mattsit on September 16, 2003, at 7:54:45
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects » PHV, posted by Arrianna on September 15, 2003, at 0:19:41
I've been taking the Lexapro for 5 days now. I havent really had any side effects that I've noticed other than the sleep. I fall asleep ok, but im up around 4 am, wide awake...then i lay around till 6:30 and get up and im TIRED till the early afternoon....Hopefully this goes away soon. How long before i feel better??? i've heard the Lexapro is pretty quick, like a week or two and I might start feeling interested in living again.
Posted by phil upland on September 16, 2003, at 8:32:16
In reply to Anyone switched to Lexapro? « ggrrl, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2002, at 7:52:48
I started taking lexa 5 weeks ago for anxiety and mild depression. I have also been taking 50mg of trazodone for over a year for night terrors/sleepwalking which had been very effective. The lexa has had its good effects but it is outweighed by terrible g.i. problems (i have irritable bowel syndrome as it is) and a return of the night terrors and vivid dreams accompanied by waking up at 4am. I feel that the lexapro has over activated me. Anyone have thoughts. ps I am on 10mg I take in the a.m.
Posted by Mariposa on September 16, 2003, at 10:54:53
In reply to Re: Lexapro troubles - day 11, posted by Peter on September 16, 2003, at 5:42:03
> >
>>
> >>> But I thought Lex was supposed to take a shorter time to kick in than other SSRI's, not longer! 6-8 weeks is longer than it took Prozac to work with me. I guess it's different for everone, but I heard some people began to feel the benefits at week 1 or 2 with lex.
>
>Yes some people get results right away, but from the posts I've read, it seems the number is small. Many more, myself included, report 6-8 wks. If you are not one of those lucky ones, please give it the full 8 weeks before you decide to quit, as the results are well worth the wait.
Keep us posted on your progress!~~~8|8
Posted by leedsman on September 16, 2003, at 11:20:37
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects, posted by Mattsit on September 16, 2003, at 7:54:45
Anybody have no real appetite in the mornings, but can eat better in the afternoon and evening?
Posted by Esmarelda on September 16, 2003, at 11:59:38
In reply to re: PHV's Lexapro Side Effects » lil' jimi, posted by phv on September 15, 2003, at 17:48:54
I wish you the best of luck, Patty. Let us know how you are doing!!!
Posted by Esmarelda on September 16, 2003, at 12:05:20
In reply to Lexapro troubles - day 11, posted by Peter on September 15, 2003, at 19:29:43
As you know, each person is affected differently by any drug. My experience with Lexapro (I am not on anything else) was that the first few days I really did feel better. Then, up until about week 5 or 6, I felt worse than I ever had in the past. Extremely anxious, depressed, tired, etc. I also had some GI upset, but nothing too serious. I hung in there and am glad I did, because Lexapro really has worked. Go back and read some previous posts and you will see that others experienced extreme and mild forms of this kind of experience before it worked. I hope that you can hang in there becasue it was worth it for me. Best of Luck!!!
Posted by Esmarelda on September 16, 2003, at 12:11:57
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects, posted by Mattsit on September 16, 2003, at 7:54:45
It took me about 5 -6 weeks before the Lex kicked in and I felt better. I am still tired in the mornings and have the same problem you do with waking up in the middle of the night. However, this is not entirely new to me since I have been an insomniac as long as I remember. I just now have a harder time the in a.m. My therapist thinks it may just be the residual depression. I think others have felt some tiredness on Lexapro, too. I have found that if I force myself up, I do fine.
Posted by Esmarelda on September 16, 2003, at 12:14:38
In reply to 5 weeks on Lexapro and problems, posted by phil upland on September 16, 2003, at 8:32:16
Check out the post I just replied to Mattsit! Good luck!
Posted by Esmarelda on September 16, 2003, at 12:16:51
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects, posted by leedsman on September 16, 2003, at 11:20:37
I have lost much of my appetite at all times.
Posted by BLKVETTES on September 16, 2003, at 13:10:57
In reply to Re: Lexapro troubles - day 11 » Peter , posted by Mariposa on September 16, 2003, at 10:54:53
> > >
> >>
> > >>> But I thought Lex was supposed to take a shorter time to kick in than other SSRI's, not longer! 6-8 weeks is longer than it took Prozac to work with me. I guess it's different for everone, but I heard some people began to feel the benefits at week 1 or 2 with lex.
> >
> >
>
> Yes some people get results right away, but from the posts I've read, it seems the number is small. Many more, myself included, report 6-8 wks. If you are not one of those lucky ones, please give it the full 8 weeks before you decide to quit, as the results are well worth the wait.
>
> Keep us posted on your progress!~~~8|8
If one is trying to balance chemicals in the brain this takes time. There is no super med that works in a week or two. What they say is that you may BEGIN to feel better or see results in a week or two. My crying jags quit after the first dose. I became numb, but would still cry time to time. So I guess looking back I did get results very early on if you want to call that getting results. But it took a good 6 weeks before I hit what I would call feeling better. If one is feeling like their old selves in a week or two I have to believe their depression or anxiety was minor to begin with. TAKE CARE!!!!!!
WAYNE
Posted by BLKVETTES on September 16, 2003, at 13:17:54
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects, posted by leedsman on September 16, 2003, at 11:18:14
> Anybody have no real appetite in the mornings, but can eat better in the afternoon and evening?
I lost over 20lbs. before lex because of depression and anxiety. Way to much for my body size. Just trying to eat a bite of something truly disgusted me. That was truly a blessing when my appetite returned almost immediately after starting lexapro. I have gained every lb. back!!!!! TAKE CARE!!!!!
WAYNE
Posted by Arrianna on September 16, 2003, at 13:19:43
In reply to Re: Lexapro troubles - day 11 » Peter , posted by Mariposa on September 16, 2003, at 10:54:53
> > >
> >>
> > >>> But I thought Lex was supposed to take a shorter time to kick in than other SSRI's, not longer! 6-8 weeks is longer than it took Prozac to work with me. I guess it's different for everone, but I heard some people began to feel the benefits at week 1 or 2 with lex.
Peter,Hang in there. It is different for everyone. I've been on 10mg lexapro now for 11 weeks. In my experience, I immediately felt benefits from Lex. I went on it for anxiety/panic attacks, and instantly my anxiety improved.
However, I went through many SE's for the first 3 weeks. I also got really depressed like you in either the first or second week.
Like you, I also experienced the initial good feeling of wanting to be around others; and then that went away for a time when I became depressed. All I wanted or felt like doing during this time was to be by myself.
But, that was short-lived. Things got alot better for me after week 3, as it continues to get better. So, please hang in there.
You might have to force yourself to get motivated, etc., during this time, but it'll pay off.
The best of luck to you!!!!
Arrianna
Posted by BLKVETTES on September 16, 2003, at 13:27:52
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects » Mattsit, posted by Esmarelda on September 16, 2003, at 12:11:57
> It took me about 5 -6 weeks before the Lex kicked in and I felt better. I am still tired in the mornings and have the same problem you do with waking up in the middle of the night. However, this is not entirely new to me since I have been an insomniac as long as I remember. I just now have a harder time the in a.m. My therapist thinks it may just be the residual depression. I think others have felt some tiredness on Lexapro, too. I have found that if I force myself up, I do fine.
I like your honesty!!!!! I to have had insomnia all my life. But I belive the depression and anxiety took it one step further. Sleep was impossible!!!!!!! With lexapro it took months for me to get any kind of decent sleep. Im back like I used to be sometimes great sleep and other times its a struggle which has nothing to do with lexapro. Ive always been a night person anyways and a lot of this is my own fault. TAKE CARE!!
WAYNE
Posted by Esmarelda on September 16, 2003, at 13:34:30
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects, posted by BLKVETTES on September 16, 2003, at 13:27:52
"ditto" Wayne!
Posted by BLKVETTES on September 16, 2003, at 13:35:23
In reply to Re: Lexapro troubles - day 11, posted by Arrianna on September 16, 2003, at 13:19:43
> > > >
> > >>
> > > >>> But I thought Lex was supposed to take a shorter time to kick in than other SSRI's, not longer! 6-8 weeks is longer than it took Prozac to work with me. I guess it's different for everone, but I heard some people began to feel the benefits at week 1 or 2 with lex.
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Hang in there. It is different for everyone. I've been on 10mg lexapro now for 11 weeks. In my experience, I immediately felt benefits from Lex. I went on it for anxiety/panic attacks, and instantly my anxiety improved.
>
> However, I went through many SE's for the first 3 weeks. I also got really depressed like you in either the first or second week.
>
> Like you, I also experienced the initial good feeling of wanting to be around others; and then that went away for a time when I became depressed. All I wanted or felt like doing during this time was to be by myself.
>
> But, that was short-lived. Things got alot better for me after week 3, as it continues to get better. So, please hang in there.
>
> You might have to force yourself to get motivated, etc., during this time, but it'll pay off.
>
> The best of luck to you!!!!
> ArriannaLexapro does not work any faster than any other med. If a doctor tells you this he or she is mistaken or just plain ignorant!!!! The makers of lexapro do not make this claim. The way they write things is very clever. Kind of like the zoloft commercial its very misleading to say the least. It just not show the true hell those little bubble balls go through to get that cute little happy face. TAKE CARE!!!!!
WAYNE
Posted by galkeepinon on September 16, 2003, at 14:54:26
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects, posted by BLKVETTES on September 16, 2003, at 13:27:52
Posted by Arrianna on September 16, 2003, at 15:05:02
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects, posted by leedsman on September 16, 2003, at 11:18:14
Leedsman,
Yep! I have no appetite in the morning!! I usually don't eat until at least 2 hrs. after I get up. If I do eat breakfast, I feel more sluggish during the day.
Arrianna
Posted by Arrianna on September 16, 2003, at 15:23:57
In reply to 5 weeks on Lexapro and problems, posted by phil upland on September 16, 2003, at 8:32:16
> I started taking lexa 5 weeks ago for anxiety and mild depression. I have also been taking 50mg of trazodone for over a year for night terrors/sleepwalking which had been very effective. The lexa has had its good effects but it is outweighed by terrible g.i. problems (i have irritable bowel syndrome as it is) and a return of the night terrors and vivid dreams accompanied by waking up at 4am. I feel that the lexapro has over activated me. Anyone have thoughts. ps I am on 10mg I take in the a.m.
Phil,Sorry to hear about your negative SE's. Hopefully, it'll get better for you as it did for myself.
When first starting lexapro, I had crazy, crazy dreams some of which were nightmares. It was very scary for me. I also woke up at least every hour during the night, then I'd find myself wide awake at or around 5a.m. I'd have to force myself to go back to sleep.
This lasted for about 3-4 weeks. But now, my sleep patterns are back to normal. Also, the crazy nightmares are now gone, even though I have occasional weird dreams. But, my dreams have always been pretty crazy.
Hang in there! It will get better.
Arrianna
Posted by leedsman on September 16, 2003, at 15:27:09
In reply to Re:lfrom paxil to Lexapro « leedsman, posted by leedsman on September 16, 2003, at 1:48:48
Behind my eyes it feels like lead weights, and my head feels heavy sometimes and this neck pain just won't stop till about late evening. Plus the tiredness still hangs in there, but I am stil hanging in there, because I really do not want to start a new med. or go back to Paxil if I don't have to. So you think 8 weeks is about right to hold on unless thing get better earlier?
Posted by Arrianna on September 16, 2003, at 15:31:52
In reply to Re: Lexapro Side Effects, posted by Mattsit on September 16, 2003, at 7:54:45
>
> I've been taking the Lexapro for 5 days now. I havent really had any side effects that I've noticed other than the sleep. I fall asleep ok, but im up around 4 am, wide awake...then i lay around till 6:30 and get up and im TIRED till the early afternoon....Hopefully this goes away soon. How long before i feel better??? i've heard the Lexapro is pretty quick, like a week or two and I might start feeling interested in living again.
Please don't become discouraged if the Lexapro takes longer than a couple of weeks for you. It is different for everyone, and usually ranges from 4-8 weeks before you experience the real benefits from it.I also experienced the sleep problems in the beginning. Like I posted to phil, I would wake up every hour during the night, and then I'd wake up at 5 a.m. wide awake. I would force myself back to sleep, because if I didn't, I'd be tired all day.
This lasted about 3 weeks for me, then my sleeping patterns eventually returned back to normal. My side effects were at their worst during this time, but I really felt an improvement starting after 3 weeks.
Hang in there and Take it easy. It'll get better soon, and one day you may even forget you ever had SE's.
Arrianna
Posted by lil' jimi on September 16, 2003, at 15:36:01
In reply to Re: Lexapro troubles - day 11, posted by BLKVETTES on September 16, 2003, at 13:10:57
hello everyone,
> > > >>> But I thought Lex was supposed to take a shorter time to kick in than other SSRI's, not longer! 6-8 weeks is longer than it took Prozac to work with me. I guess it's different for everone, but I heard some people began to feel the benefits at week 1 or 2 with lex.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yes some people get results right away, but from the posts I've read, it seems the number is small. Many more, myself included, report 6-8 wks. If you are not one of those lucky ones, please give it the full 8 weeks before you decide to quit, as the results are well worth the wait.
> >
> > Keep us posted on your progress!~~~8|8
>
>
> If one is trying to balance chemicals in the brain this takes time. There is no super med that works in a week or two. What they say is that you may BEGIN to feel better or see results in a week or two. My crying jags quit after the first dose. I became numb, but would still cry time to time. So I guess looking back I did get results very early on if you want to call that getting results. But it took a good 6 weeks before I hit what I would call feeling better. If one is feeling like their old selves in a week or two I have to believe their depression or anxiety was minor to begin with. TAKE CARE!!!!!!
> WAYNE
>... i am so like Wayne sometimes
... i thought about not replying here
... ... And Mariposa is / was great, as always
... ... did i really need to post this ?
... ... would this be like a big help to anyone ?
... thinking about it some i decided that the answers to those two questions were,
No.
.... period... then it came to me
... what do i know ?
... who am i to say i don't post ? (?)
... i've been wrong before ! (!)
... how am _i_ to know i'm not wrong this time ? (!!!)so ... drawing strength from my doubts about my insecurities ... i have chosen to go ahead on ...
individual variation
individual variation, my friends, is what i have preached here, too many times perhaps for some ... yet the newly arrived ones must hear the gospel for the first time ... ... i dare say it shall not be the last ... ....
... ... this is his gospel of individual variation, according to .... me ! ... ... ... HA!the difference in the response to lexapro from one individual to another is so great that ...
... it can be greater than the difference between one individual taking different meds ... ....boring, huh?
... the ends of the synapses of a pair of neurons ... one on each side of an intersynaptic junction ... the ends are covered hundreds of bee hives and specific varieties of hives harbor specific species of bees /wasps/ dragonflies ... .... dozens of species ... ... (i'm making this up ... ... you could tell?) .... .... back inside each of the hives/nests (inside the synapse) there as interconnections ... ... everything interacts with everything else ... .... just like real life ...
.... this is the picture i use to try to model neurotransmitters' lifestyles ... ... all of the bees /wasps/ dragonflies are the neurotransmitters, of course ...
... i imagine that on a good day there would be flights in formation, swarms curving gracefully, flocks diving and swooping ... ... all in constellations of mutual interaction ...... ... then some hives start to struggle and their species become depleted ... other hives of other species react ... depleted hives try to increase production ...
... the grand coordinated choreography of the bees ... degrades into a mechanical struggle to continue ...
... about here is where i walk in and throw 10 milligrams of lexapro onto the swarms .... ... i see 10mg as about the size as Dorothy's house on my made-up scale of this intersynaptic landscape ...
... Dorothy's house from the Wizard of Oz ... ... the house she landed on the Wicked Witch of the West ...... i imagine the house exploding into pieces that completely upsets all of the bees and their friends ... it completely disorganizes any remaining order to the flights of transmission ...
... here's where my SEs begin ...
... Central Nervous System wide, every neural communication gets pushed toward chaos ... ... possible candidates for responding adversely?
... digestion
... respiration
... circulation
... reproduction
... urination
... perception
... sleep
... motor controls
... endocrine stuff
... you name iteach of us is as individual as our neurotransmitters dynamic equilibrium ... ... snow flakes unique? ... ... they only are ‘no two are the same’ unique .... ... for neurotransmitters’ phase states not even one is the same (!) ... ... excuse my hyperbole ... ... just emphasizing the individuality of these bees’ swarms’ interactivity ... ... sorry there
... ... but after a while (a while equals X number of weeks, such that X may be a number from a very small number to something bigger) ... these pieces of Judy Garland’s house begin to have a magical effect in the hives ... ... as the reuptake gets selectively inhibited .... reuptake of certain serotonin bees ...
... ... the depleted bees recover
... ... the population balance of the species is restored
... ... ... and the harmonious symphony of flying things returns
... (if i’m making it up, i get to have a happy ending) !!still boring, huh? ... ... no news ... ... just fancy pictures for that buzzing in my head ... bah!
i use these models to imagine hypothetical responses to the Judy Garland’s .... Dorothy’s house ....
theoretically ... ... hypothetically, i could have, say, a very severe swarm failure ... i mean neurotransmitter dysfunction ... ... one that was totally disruptive and debilitating ... ... i could even be at risk ...
... and although my condition is very serious and persistent ... ... ... it turns out (and i have no way to know this) that for as bad as this is affecting me ... .. and as bad as the swarm’s incapacity has become ....
... all i need is just the right nudge, just a little ... and the whole dynamic equilibrium comes back ... ... almost immediately ...
... ... i’m suggesting that it is possible for our neurotransmitters’ dynamics to get trapped in catastrophic phase state ... ... oh, say, by a strange attractor or something ... a disastrous unrecoverable collapse ... ...
... yet the ideal beneficial small input could just tip the system to avalanche positive reconstruction back to full restoration ...
... it could happen ! ... ... i say so because we can imagine...all too easily... the reverse process ... .. ... where the triggering event creates the destructive cascade .. ... ... and i’m just positing that there’s no intrinsic reason why this process couldn’t happening in the other direction and i’m just suggesting this is _possible_ ... albeit very unlikely ... ...... okay! ... very, very, Very unlikely ... nevertheless ... ...
it is possible that recovery time may not be an indicator of the severity of neurotransmitter dysfunction ...
... of course, i like Dorothy’s house also because it killed the Wicked Witch of the ... ... west? ... was it the west?
... then you could replace my buzzing bees, in my allegory, with the Munchkins ... ... ... okay, we’ll save that one for another day, kids ! .... ... HA!((Notice! All of my “HA!”s are me laughing at me .... and only me ... please .... thank you!))
i guess, instead of that buzzing in my head i could have those singing Munchkins in there ... ...
... ... HA!TAKE CARE !!!! !!
~jim
Posted by Esmarelda on September 16, 2003, at 15:52:27
In reply to re: Lexapro, nobody knows the troubles i've seen, posted by lil' jimi on September 16, 2003, at 15:36:01
Excellent Post and so humorous, too! Thanks Lil Jim - Bees or Munchkins or snakes or ants in the head --- what's the difference? could we consider Lex a big can of RAID!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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