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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by blkvettes on April 3, 2003, at 14:25:38
In reply to Doc encouraging increase dosage and switch to Lex » JaneB, posted by 88ivories on April 3, 2003, at 13:46:23
> The doctor said 40mg was considered the lowest thp'tic dose (you know that line, I'm sure). I am also taking 5-10mg Valium daily and I think he was hoping the extra Celexa was help get rid of the Valium. I am working on that myself. This Lexapro doesn't seem to be working well. I have only used it now 3 days. From reading all the talk back and forth on this thread between the "pharmrep" and "drdave" there definately seems to be some dispute regarding the equivalent effect of mg between the 2 drugs. I wonder what "drbob's" opinion would be on that. I may go back to the Celexa. I'm also having hot flashes and nausea with the lex. I was hoping it was a dosing issue vs the drug itself. The Celexa has caused some unwanted (but not excessive) weight gain. Thanks! 88ivories
I also get a hot flash now and then. But I used to get them with panic attacks real bad.
Posted by Luziluna on April 3, 2003, at 16:05:12
In reply to Wish I could, posted by JaneB on June 11, 2002, at 13:12:29
Hi,
I have a disorder known as BDD- or Body Dysmorphic Disorder- its related to OCD, only involves severe and persistant obsessions about perceived defects in appearance. I recently tried Paxil, but stopped after 8 days because I was flushing so severely that I looked badly sunburned! Not good, since my particular BDD preoccupation is with my skin! I am going to talk to my doctor tomorrow about Lexapro or Celexa. Anyone tried these, and if so, any side effects that were unacceptable? I can't take the flushing, so if it happens with the others, I will just try some other approach to treating this disorder. All suggestions are welcome. Thanks!
Posted by 88ivories on April 3, 2003, at 16:12:49
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by JackD on April 3, 2003, at 14:21:20
> Hey man, i've been there. Technically the drug leaves your system completely in less than a week i believe. The problem is that there is then a rebound depression from lack of a previously unnaturally hightened level of serotonin, which is then likely really low. It's more complex then than that, but you get the idea of rebound depression. That my friend, blows, and can last a month or sometimes a little more. Just telling you the cold hard facts. How do I cope? I usually end up drinking and smoking ALL the time until it goes away. Hang in there.
Jack...funny you mention drinking as a coping w/ the withdrawals. My doc discretely suggested that as a temporary copeing mechanism...something to mask the discomfort until it subsides. I am still taking meds - at low doses. I have gone from a doc that pushed high doses (2400mg Depakote, 300mg Luvox, + 4mg Klonopin - I was a walking zombie) to 30 mgs of Celexa and 7.5mg Valium. The withdrawals from the Luvox/Klonopin were almost fatal for me. I referenced several books by Peter Breggin, M.D. that convinced me the dosages were excessive and a bad match for my body. I was having serious liver problems. Back to the books...they throughly cover the expected withdrawals, rebound, the works. "Toxic Psychiatry", and "Your Drug may be Your Problem". However, these books will try to convince you not to use the meds at all. I think they are very much in order for some of us, but it helps you become more aware of dosage and what to expect when you lower it.
Posted by 88ivories on April 3, 2003, at 16:22:44
In reply to Re:new to this, anyone had trouble with Lexapro?, posted by Luziluna on April 3, 2003, at 16:05:12
> Hi,
> I have a disorder known as BDD- or Body Dysmorphic Disorder- its related to OCD, only involves severe and persistant obsessions about perceived defects in appearance. I recently tried Paxil, but stopped after 8 days because I was flushing so severely that I looked badly sunburned! Not good, since my particular BDD preoccupation is with my skin! I am going to talk to my doctor tomorrow about Lexapro or Celexa. Anyone tried these, and if so, any side effects that were unacceptable? I can't take the flushing, so if it happens with the others, I will just try some other approach to treating this disorder. All suggestions are welcome. Thanks!Hi...I am new to this posting board as a poster, but not as a reader. I have used this resource to my benefit for close to 5 years and have just now decided to participate and share all that I have learned from personal experience. From my research and personal experience, SSRIs will affect each person a little differently. One drug may work great for one person and not at all for another. I have had some issues with BDD and can understand the pain associated (although I was never treated for this). I was on Luvox for several years, but it had a bad affect on my liver - this will not be true for all users. Paxil didn't work, Celexa has been wonderful. BDD is something you will probably also need to bundle some good talk therpy along w/ meds. Don't give up...all of these issues have solutions. Some take more time than others. The first step is deciding to take control instead of it controlling you! Good luck! 88ivories.
Posted by blkvettes on April 3, 2003, at 16:34:37
In reply to Re:new to this, anyone had trouble with Lexapro?, posted by Luziluna on April 3, 2003, at 16:05:12
> Hi,
> I have a disorder known as BDD- or Body Dysmorphic Disorder- its related to OCD, only involves severe and persistant obsessions about perceived defects in appearance. I recently tried Paxil, but stopped after 8 days because I was flushing so severely that I looked badly sunburned! Not good, since my particular BDD preoccupation is with my skin! I am going to talk to my doctor tomorrow about Lexapro or Celexa. Anyone tried these, and if so, any side effects that were unacceptable? I can't take the flushing, so if it happens with the others, I will just try some other approach to treating this disorder. All suggestions are welcome. Thanks!Hi there, I had severe flushing on the paxil and zoloft. I have had none on the lexapro. Celexa is similar to lexapro so there is a good chance you will be able to use either one I hope. GOOD LUCK!!
Posted by blkvettes on April 3, 2003, at 16:48:55
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by 88ivories on April 3, 2003, at 16:12:49
> > Hey man, i've been there. Technically the drug leaves your system completely in less than a week i believe. The problem is that there is then a rebound depression from lack of a previously unnaturally hightened level of serotonin, which is then likely really low. It's more complex then than that, but you get the idea of rebound depression. That my friend, blows, and can last a month or sometimes a little more. Just telling you the cold hard facts. How do I cope? I usually end up drinking and smoking ALL the time until it goes away. Hang in there.
>
>
> Jack...funny you mention drinking as a coping w/ the withdrawals. My doc discretely suggested that as a temporary copeing mechanism...something to mask the discomfort until it subsides. I am still taking meds - at low doses. I have gone from a doc that pushed high doses (2400mg Depakote, 300mg Luvox, + 4mg Klonopin - I was a walking zombie) to 30 mgs of Celexa and 7.5mg Valium. The withdrawals from the Luvox/Klonopin were almost fatal for me. I referenced several books by Peter Breggin, M.D. that convinced me the dosages were excessive and a bad match for my body. I was having serious liver problems. Back to the books...they throughly cover the expected withdrawals, rebound, the works. "Toxic Psychiatry", and "Your Drug may be Your Problem". However, these books will try to convince you not to use the meds at all. I think they are very much in order for some of us, but it helps you become more aware of dosage and what to expect when you lower it.
>Hi there, now I am curious again. I was on paxil and then zoloft for a month. I ended up in the ER with severe stomach pain. They did blood work and my liver enzymes were 6 times normal. They kept coming down slowly each time they checked. I ended up having a liver biopsy and they thought they saw a tumor. Turned out to be scar tissue. Last month I had the blood test done again but have not gone to get my results. Could you give more info on your liver problems I am very curious. By the way before I started the paxil and zoloft my enzymes were normal. I know this because I had many trips to the ER with panic attacks and my wife had me sent to the nuthouse part of the hospital for 1 night where I was finally diagnosed. They did complete blood work. THANKS!!!!!!!!
Posted by blkvettes on April 3, 2003, at 17:03:48
In reply to LEXAPRO AND 88ivories, posted by blkvettes on April 3, 2003, at 16:48:55
Hi there, one more thing about taking to much med. I have been reading alot about this recently and have wondered when you do you go over the edge with to much. Who is qualified to see this!!! I doubt many shrinks would ever pick up on this. I go to a lot of message boards and read people complaining about certain symptoms. They are taking the max on a med and I want to say hey you are taking to much I think. But I am not qualified to make that call. I wonder how many people are taking meds when there serotonin levels are to high to begin with and they should be going the other way. Just my thoughts I am very curious about the whole thing since I started having panic attacks and depression. I have everything pretty much under control right now but no guarantees on how long that will last. So just in case I keep reading and thinking!!!!! TAKE CARE!!!!!!!!!
Posted by 88ivories on April 3, 2003, at 18:54:01
In reply to LEXAPRO AND 88ivories, posted by blkvettes on April 3, 2003, at 16:48:55
>
> Hi there, now I am curious again. I was on paxil and then zoloft for a month. I ended up in the ER with severe stomach pain. They did blood work and my liver enzymes were 6 times normal. They kept coming down slowly each time they checked. I ended up having a liver biopsy and they thought they saw a tumor. Turned out to be scar tissue. Last month I had the blood test done again but have not gone to get my results. Could you give more info on your liver problems I am very curious. By the way before I started the paxil and zoloft my enzymes were normal. I know this because I had many trips to the ER with panic attacks and my wife had me sent to the nuthouse part of the hospital for 1 night where I was finally diagnosed. They did complete blood work. THANKS!!!!!!!!After I left the doc that had me so doped up I was running red lights and sleeping when I wasn't on the road, I began to take matters into my own hands. It seems with some of these psy'ists that the more you tell them, the more labels they throw on you. That's another subject. Anyway, a good doctor won't do this to you. After reading some the the Peter Breggin material and a through physical with family physician, I realized I had documented proof that I had some serious physical issues. I am an otherwise healthy 40yr. female, fit, etc. I was sent to an infectious disease guy who said I had fybromyalgia (ha), sent for CAT scans for a possible tumor or enlargement of the liver. The liver enzymes continued to rise over 2 years. I had terrible muscle fatique and joint pain (i.e., the fibromyalgia diagnosis). I started researching the web and started finding some similiar problems in other users of Luvox. I told my doc that despite his reluctance to take me off the meds (I had already stopped the Depakote), that I was going to start a gradual taper. When I got to 75 mg of Luvox and stopped it altogether (including the last mg of Klonopin) I hit the wall and ended up in the ER. I noticed that my liver enzymes had improved. After getting completely off the Luvox and Klonopin and 7mths on the Celexa (20-30mg) and 5-10mg of Valium daily, my liver is normal. No more joint problems, muscle fatique, neck cricks, etc. I don't have the energy I would like, but feel much better. My goal is to someday be med-free, if that is possible. :)
Posted by 88ivories on April 3, 2003, at 19:02:21
In reply to 88ivories and lexapro, posted by blkvettes on April 3, 2003, at 17:03:48
> Hi there, one more thing about taking to much med. I have been reading alot about this recently and have wondered when you do you go over the edge with to much. Who is qualified to see this!!! I doubt many shrinks would ever pick up on this. I go to a lot of message boards and read people complaining about certain symptoms. They are taking the max on a med and I want to say hey you are taking to much I think. But I am not qualified to make that call. I wonder how many people are taking meds when there serotonin levels are to high to begin with and they should be going the other way. Just my thoughts I am very curious about the whole thing since I started having panic attacks and depression. I have everything pretty much under control right now but no guarantees on how long that will last. So just in case I keep reading and thinking!!!!! TAKE CARE!!!!!!!!!
----
I have several theories on why docs over-medicate.
1) Law suits. They are afraid that if you go over the edge because they didn't give you enough, they will be sued by your survivors.
2) It's easier to throw more meds on the problem than do the hard job: dig and find the root of the problem and help you fix that.
3) Swamped-eductation on the fly by the pharmc'tal sales reps eager for business.
4) Overly busy and doing the best they can under the circumstances.
I think we all, as patients of whatever ailment, should be aware, educated, and participate when possible in our treatment.
I have found that a good pharmacist is a much better, more objective resource on meds, dosage, their pros/cons that the perscribing physician.
I, now, have a wonderful family doc now who does my meds. He welcomes my findings on the net and includes the input of the pharmacist in his perscriptions (most of the time). This is VERY refreshing to me based on a very megative past experience.
Posted by blkvettes on April 3, 2003, at 19:14:17
In reply to Re: SSRI's and Elevated Liver Enzymes » blkvettes, posted by 88ivories on April 3, 2003, at 18:54:01
> >
> > Hi there, now I am curious again. I was on paxil and then zoloft for a month. I ended up in the ER with severe stomach pain. They did blood work and my liver enzymes were 6 times normal. They kept coming down slowly each time they checked. I ended up having a liver biopsy and they thought they saw a tumor. Turned out to be scar tissue. Last month I had the blood test done again but have not gone to get my results. Could you give more info on your liver problems I am very curious. By the way before I started the paxil and zoloft my enzymes were normal. I know this because I had many trips to the ER with panic attacks and my wife had me sent to the nuthouse part of the hospital for 1 night where I was finally diagnosed. They did complete blood work. THANKS!!!!!!!!
>
> After I left the doc that had me so doped up I was running red lights and sleeping when I wasn't on the road, I began to take matters into my own hands. It seems with some of these psy'ists that the more you tell them, the more labels they throw on you. That's another subject. Anyway, a good doctor won't do this to you. After reading some the the Peter Breggin material and a through physical with family physician, I realized I had documented proof that I had some serious physical issues. I am an otherwise healthy 40yr. female, fit, etc. I was sent to an infectious disease guy who said I had fybromyalgia (ha), sent for CAT scans for a possible tumor or enlargement of the liver. The liver enzymes continued to rise over 2 years. I had terrible muscle fatique and joint pain (i.e., the fibromyalgia diagnosis). I started researching the web and started finding some similiar problems in other users of Luvox. I told my doc that despite his reluctance to take me off the meds (I had already stopped the Depakote), that I was going to start a gradual taper. When I got to 75 mg of Luvox and stopped it altogether (including the last mg of Klonopin) I hit the wall and ended up in the ER. I noticed that my liver enzymes had improved. After getting completely off the Luvox and Klonopin and 7mths on the Celexa (20-30mg) and 5-10mg of Valium daily, my liver is normal. No more joint problems, muscle fatique, neck cricks, etc. I don't have the energy I would like, but feel much better. My goal is to someday be med-free, if that is possible. :)
>
>
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Donia on April 3, 2003, at 22:28:23
In reply to Advice please...., posted by jdgal on April 3, 2003, at 11:46:47
I would think you should not be having these problems from withdrawel if you were only on it for 4 weeks. Are you sure its not panic/depression symptoms that arent resolved? If you really think it is lexapro withdrawel then try to cut any leftover tablets into fourths and take one fourth a day for a while. I was on zoloft once for 4 weeks and just quit taking it with no problems. I then took it again for 6 months and had to wean off.
Posted by mmcleod on April 4, 2003, at 11:04:28
In reply to Anyone switched to Lexapro? « ggrrl, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2002, at 7:52:48
I am into my 3rd week on 10mg of Lexapro. I take it at night and sleep fine but can barely get out of bed in the morning and am sluggish till the afternoon. Someone said this goes away the longer you are on it? Anyone else have any similar responses with longer use? The fatigue is my only side effect (so far).
Posted by indirect00 on April 4, 2003, at 12:44:15
In reply to Re: Really tired at 3 weeks on Lex, posted by mmcleod on April 4, 2003, at 11:04:28
Yes. I had this problem. I was tardy for class nearly every day. I have switched back to celexa (which seems to be more of an "upper" if you will) and I no longer have this problem. You may want to talk to your doc about going to Celexa.
Posted by mollymorph on April 4, 2003, at 13:09:51
In reply to Re:new to this, anyone had trouble with Lexapro? » Luziluna, posted by 88ivories on April 3, 2003, at 16:22:44
Posted by jdgal on April 4, 2003, at 17:32:57
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by Donia on April 3, 2003, at 22:28:23
To Everyoone who replied to me:
Thanks for your support, I am now thinking I might still be having panic attavks, badly, the lexapro should definitly be out of my system by now, or mabye Im having withdrawel from the xanax, I forgot to mention I was taking .05 everday, up to four times a day, I quit the xanax a day or two after I quit Lexapro. I dont know, I can talk ok today, but I feel like I have tio think about what Im saying when Im saying it, Does that make any sense? I also drank a whole bunch on Lex and Xanax, I now know that was a big mistake, I am still drinking heavily. I know now I am an alcoholic as well as being a depressed , panicked person. Im scared to death.
Posted by blkvettes on April 4, 2003, at 17:42:47
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by jdgal on April 4, 2003, at 17:32:57
> To Everyoone who replied to me:
>
> Thanks for your support, I am now thinking I might still be having panic attavks, badly, the lexapro should definitly be out of my system by now, or mabye Im having withdrawel from the xanax, I forgot to mention I was taking .05 everday, up to four times a day, I quit the xanax a day or two after I quit Lexapro. I dont know, I can talk ok today, but I feel like I have tio think about what Im saying when Im saying it, Does that make any sense? I also drank a whole bunch on Lex and Xanax, I now know that was a big mistake, I am still drinking heavily. I know now I am an alcoholic as well as being a depressed , panicked person. Im scared to death.
>Hi there, dont want to be rude or anything like that. But you need to quit drinking, Mybe your problem was not the med but the drinking. Quitting is hard, I did drugs for 10 years and quit 18 years ago. PLEASE STOP!!!!!!! Go back to your doc and start over!!!!!!! Does the doc know you drink!!!! You have to be honest with the doc!!! You can do this and dont give up hope!!! Go to AA meetings, call a friend instead of drinking, whatever it takes!!!! HANG IN THERE!!!!
Posted by Okpolosi on April 4, 2003, at 18:33:36
In reply to Re: Really tired at 3 weeks on Lex, posted by mmcleod on April 4, 2003, at 11:04:28
> I am into my 3rd week on 10mg of Lexapro. I take it at night and sleep fine but can barely get out of bed in the morning and am sluggish till the afternoon. Someone said this goes away the longer you are on it? Anyone else have any similar responses with longer use? The fatigue is my only side effect (so far).
What time in the evening are you taking Lex? I started off taking it in the morning, and I was falling asleep around 7-8PM. Switched to 1-2PM and now I fall asleep easily around 11PM, sleep soundly through the nite and get up much easier. I was an insomniac befor Lex and had a terrible time getting up to go to work. Just starting on Lex I felt much more tired than usual, but that SE did go away for me - into week 10 now.
Posted by Donia on April 4, 2003, at 18:44:04
In reply to Re: Really tired at 3 weeks on Lex, posted by mmcleod on April 4, 2003, at 11:04:28
I have been very tired and unmotivated on lexapro. I have been on it for two and a half months and this is subsiding finally. I was ready to give up, but it does help with the depression and anxiety so I stuck it out and am having more energy with less sleep.
Posted by Donia on April 4, 2003, at 18:46:37
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by jdgal on April 4, 2003, at 17:32:57
How long were you on the xanax? They are addictive and I would assume that is where your symptoms are coming from. I love xanax but will not take it because I love it. I was on it for a little while when I took zoloft while I was adjusting to the zoloft.
Posted by jdgal on April 4, 2003, at 21:02:03
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by Donia on April 4, 2003, at 18:46:37
I was on xanax for a full month, but in that month I had 3 prescriptions filled.
Thanks for caring. So do u really think thats what it is?
Posted by 88ivories on April 4, 2003, at 21:02:19
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by jdgal on April 4, 2003, at 17:32:57
> To Everyoone who replied to me:
>
> Thanks for your support, I am now thinking I might still be having panic attavks, badly, the lexapro should definitly be out of my system by now, or mabye Im having withdrawel from the xanax, I forgot to mention I was taking .05 everday, up to four times a day, I quit the xanax a day or two after I quit Lexapro. I dont know, I can talk ok today, but I feel like I have tio think about what Im saying when Im saying it, Does that make any sense? I also drank a whole bunch on Lex and Xanax, I now know that was a big mistake, I am still drinking heavily. I know now I am an alcoholic as well as being a depressed , panicked person. Im scared to death.
>
I agree with blkvette, the majority of your side effects are most probably coming from the Xanax. Actually benzos, such as Xanax and alcohol have very similar effects on your body, that's why using one or the other makes you feel better when you are w/drawing. I withdrew from Klonopin and was very hard. Xanax, like Klonopin, has a short half life which means the w/drawals hit you a little harder. Give it 7-10 days. I had to come clean with my doctor about some substance abuse things and when I did, that's when I really got the help I needed. You CAN do this. You need some good support and the will to follow through. Good Luck!
Posted by blkvettes on April 4, 2003, at 21:21:48
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by jdgal on April 4, 2003, at 21:02:03
> I was on xanax for a full month, but in that month I had 3 prescriptions filled.
> Thanks for caring. So do u really think thats what it is?Hey there, the xanax is bad news if you take to much and you can have bad withdrawl. I was on about 2 to 3mg per day along with the zoloft at one time and quit cold turkey. It took about a month to get everything out of my system. But you need to get with the doc and start over and tell them you have a problem with alcohol if you have not. Do you have family and friends to help? You can do this but it wont be easy. Dont give up!!! Here is a link about withdrawl from xanax that I got months ago when I was coming off the stuff. TAKE CARE!!!!!!
http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/xanaxbusters1.htm
Posted by Donia on April 4, 2003, at 23:11:03
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by jdgal on April 4, 2003, at 21:02:03
I was on xanax for three months. Dosage was I think .25 mg and I had to take about 4 or 5 at a time to get them to work. Usually took a few in the morning and a few at night. I had no trouble quiting after the three months, but sure liked them when I had them. I would say your symptoms are the regular symptoms most of us are dealing with also when we dont have a proper medication that is working. I know I was a mess for three months before starting lexapro. Always some weird thing going on with me from sleeping way too much, headaches, trouble breathing, chest pains and back pains. This has resolved for the most part since taking lexapro.
Posted by jdgal on April 5, 2003, at 8:32:57
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by blkvettes on April 4, 2003, at 21:21:48
Thnaks, that link did really help. Today, I feel depressed again.... its so sunny here in Fl, and I dont even want to leave the house. I am a single mom of an beautiful 9 year old girl , and I feel horrible that I cant even take her somewhere. I know I am also depressed becuase 2 weeks ago I cut my left knee open and got 8 stitches, so My leg is ugly, now, Im also PMSing and feel HUGE. I feel like everyone is staring at me if I go outside. I cant take this anymore. Suicide thoughts. Scary.
Posted by blkvettes on April 5, 2003, at 11:26:36
In reply to Re: Advice please...., posted by jdgal on April 5, 2003, at 8:32:57
> Thnaks, that link did really help. Today, I feel depressed again.... its so sunny here in Fl, and I dont even want to leave the house. I am a single mom of an beautiful 9 year old girl , and I feel horrible that I cant even take her somewhere. I know I am also depressed becuase 2 weeks ago I cut my left knee open and got 8 stitches, so My leg is ugly, now, Im also PMSing and feel HUGE. I feel like everyone is staring at me if I go outside. I cant take this anymore. Suicide thoughts. Scary.
Hi there, I live in orlando and also have a 9 year old daughter. NOT KIDDING!!! She is what has kept me going through all this crap. I had suicide thoughts for months. I am on my 3rd med and doing so much better. You just get back to the doc and find something that will work. Your daughter will not be better off without you either if you have thought that. You could set her up with the pain you feel right now. So you keep trying, you keep dragging yourself through each horrible day until you feel better. DONT GIVE UP HOPE!!!!!!! Your daughter needs you!!!!
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