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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 17:11:40
In reply to Lessen Side Effects - TAKE WITH FOOD, posted by ajen on October 9, 2002, at 15:26:04
> I was on Paxil 40mg a day for about a year and a half. I also had to take 12.5mg of Trazadone to get some restful sleep at night. I had horrible problems getting up in the morning. It caused some problems at work.
>
> A few weeks ago my doctor was finally willing to switch me to something else. He put me on 10mg Lexapro, and had me lower the Paxil 10mg every 4 days until I was off.
>
> The first time I tried to start taking the Lexapro, I stuck with it for 3 days. The side effects were awful. I constantly felt on the verge of throwing up, no appetite, and generally felt very out of it. It made work nearly impossible, I couldn't concentrate, I felt so crappy. So I decided, without talking to my doctor that I wasn't going to take Lexapro.
>
> Fortunately, I had a change of heart after discussing the situation with various family members. I went back on Lexapro and got in to see my doctor ASAP about side effects. He asked if I was taking the Lexapro with food. Nothing I read said to take it with food, so I didn't. He told me to try. I took his advice, and guess what? It actually WORKED!
>
> I'm now only on Lexapro. I have experienced more bruxism than usual, but I can deal with that. I have more energy, eventhough I'm still having issues getting out of bed. I'm going to try taking Lexapro in the morning.
>
> Oh yeah, my sex drive is much higher than it has been in a long time!
**** Im glad to hear its working for you. It is not supposed to be necessary to take Lexapro with food. Did you know that the s/e you mentioned are the same s/e for discontinuation syndrome? (you were lowering and stopping paxil at the time you started lexapro) the vomitting was the key. this is a very uncommon s/e for ad's, but a big one for discontinuation syndrome...which paxil has. It sounds like your'e past the "integration" stage...have you tried to take w/out food yet? test it w/out food and I bet you will find no difference. Good luck, and keep us posted. (ps Morning use will help)
Posted by Satori on October 9, 2002, at 17:16:23
In reply to Re: Weird question for anyone concerning lexapro » Satori, posted by johnj on October 9, 2002, at 17:07:58
I know you're right, and he's supposed to go back in two weeks, so if it's not helping, I'm sure he'll be more open to the idea of talking about it. Basically, it embarrasses him to discuss that, but if nothing's changed, I do think he'd be more willing to go into all of it.
Posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 17:18:02
In reply to Re: marijuana..tough one, posted by Satori on October 9, 2002, at 17:06:22
> Hi, When I say 'short term', I mean 6 months to a year. All I mean is not a lifetime. What's the normal length of time someone should be on this drug? For instance, 7 years ago I had a CVA which caused a lot of problems and I was given Zoloft. I took it for a little over a year, but I took myself off. I've heard so much about the seratonin drugs causing your brain to stop producing seratonin correctly, plus I have to take other medications, and I'm really scared of drugs anyway. So with all of that, I decided to quit taking the Zoloft on my own, but it really helped me at the time. It was one reason I really wanted my husband to be able to get on one of these types of antidepressants, but I just don't want him to have to take it forever. That was basically all I meant by short term.
** just for stats sake...the average antidepressant users term is 13 months. (He wont have to take forever if he doesnt want too) Lexapro has a very clean p450 system so drug interactions shouldnt be an issue...but I agree w/ johnj...he should tell the DR, and this will help everyone.
Posted by Satori on October 9, 2002, at 17:30:03
In reply to Re: marijuana..tough one » Satori, posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 17:18:02
Thanks so much. I've been really worried about all this, and he's been worried and frustrated, but I thank both you and johnj for all the info. It's been really great, and you've both been truly helpful.
Posted by FunBunny on October 9, 2002, at 19:36:52
In reply to Re: Weird question for anyone concerning lexapro » Satori, posted by johnj on October 9, 2002, at 13:23:59
Hey I just started Lexapro about 6 days ago, I was taking 5 mg in the morning and now I started 10 mg which I am going to stay on. I'm bi-polar type II and I got the seasonal blues and my anxiety began to heighten. I also take 1500 mg of Keppra at night, which is a new mood stablizer. I take .5 mg of klonopin in the morning, which helps with my anxiety. I realized that I was having a little trouble with drinking a little at night, or with a couple of friends which was just making the depression worse, but it relived it temporarily The thing is, I work at "fantasty sports bar" I know that I'm not suppposed to drink, but would one drink hurt me at work? I could handle drinking by just being on Keppra, but I feel by just staying on that, I won't feel ultimatly better, and I want to stay on Lexapro. How bad is that combo? Thanks
Posted by maririp on October 9, 2002, at 20:33:09
In reply to Re: appetite » maririp, posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 16:33:41
> > Ippopo..I have been on lexapro almost 3 weeks now..and the first few days i couldnt stand the thought of food. I have a good apetite now and i know i have gained a few pounds...Im hopin I dont gain too much too soon as i did with other antidepressants. Im thin so i enjoy having a nice appetite. I dont seem to feel the need to eat every minute like I did on other meds..Is still early tho so we will see.
> *** I am hearing both gaining appetite back, and loss of appetite. (mostly loss of appetite so far) Lexapro is supposed to be weight-neutral (same as Celexa). It should not be a weight factor inherently (like paxil can.) The change in appetite and eating habits might be why a persons weight changes...I know it's been a few weeks now, but can you evaluate your eating habits and attribute the weight change to that?I think meds can cause the changes in a persons eating habits. I have been on lex 3 weeks...as i said the first several days i didnt have an appetite at all. I have a very good appetite now. Its too soon for me to tell if lex will have the same effect on me as some other antidepressants where i could not stop eating. I dont feel the need to eat constantly, I just eat better.
Posted by Mr.Scott on October 9, 2002, at 21:10:12
In reply to Re: appetite » pharmrep, posted by maririp on October 9, 2002, at 20:33:09
Pharmrep,
Does Forest know how much time you spend on this website talking "directly to patients"? I wonder what the legal ramifications are. Hmmm...I'll have to get in touch with some of my med-reg/DDMAC friends who will know.
Posted by Micki on October 9, 2002, at 21:13:21
In reply to Re: appetite » pharmrep, posted by maririp on October 9, 2002, at 20:33:09
I am just switching to Lexapro after taking Pamelor for 12 years. I have been on and off antidepressants since I was a teenager. I have always had a difficult time making decisions, and am currently in a state of extreme stress and anxiety over a situation in my love life--choosing which of two people to get involvoed with. I think about it constantly, think I've made a decision, then change my mind the next hour or day. I went to a new psychiatrist who felt this is a form of OCD (although I do not have symptoms such as washing my hands repeatedly).
I lowered the Pamelor, went off it for a few days, took 5 mg Lexapro (mornings) for 3 days and now have taken 10 mg Lexapro for 3 days. I thought I felt better yesterday, today I am extremely stressed out and depressed again. The psychiatrist said the drug should help with the depression in about a 3 or 4 weeks, but that it takes 8 to 12 weeks for it to really affect the obsessive thinking. Anyone have any feedback on how accurate this is? Also, after reading Alan's post about AD's vx BZD's for anxiety disorders, I'm wondering how likely the Lexapro is to help with the anxiety, or if I really need a Bzd. Also wondering if anyone has any comments on Lexapro (or another SSRI) and decision making. I have a terrible time making decisions, and then often think I've made the wrong one and torment myself with second-guessing.
Posted by ANXIETY ANN on October 9, 2002, at 21:28:47
In reply to Re- TAKE WITH FOOD/bottom » ajen, posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 17:11:40
does anyone know if lexapro affects blood pressure? i recently started taking meds for high blood pressure and then 2 wks later started taking lexapro. my blood pressure is still high but my doc says give the bp med time to work. thanks for the help
Posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 21:34:35
In reply to Forest, posted by Mr.Scott on October 9, 2002, at 21:10:12
> Pharmrep,
>
> Does Forest know how much time you spend on this website talking "directly to patients"? I wonder what the legal ramifications are. Hmmm...I'll have to get in touch with some of my med-reg/DDMAC friends who will know.
>** Why should Forest care what I do on my own time? What I say is from me, not Forest so why would there be any legalities. (besides...you should see how many "patients" approach me when I'm in the elevator or the like and they see my Lexapro nametag...I talk w/ people all the time)
Posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 21:40:18
In reply to Anxiety, depression, indecision, posted by Micki on October 9, 2002, at 21:13:21
> I am just switching to Lexapro after taking Pamelor for 12 years. I have been on and off antidepressants since I was a teenager. I have always had a difficult time making decisions, and am currently in a state of extreme stress and anxiety over a situation in my love life--choosing which of two people to get involvoed with. I think about it constantly, think I've made a decision, then change my mind the next hour or day. I went to a new psychiatrist who felt this is a form of OCD (although I do not have symptoms such as washing my hands repeatedly).
>
> I lowered the Pamelor, went off it for a few days, took 5 mg Lexapro (mornings) for 3 days and now have taken 10 mg Lexapro for 3 days. I thought I felt better yesterday, today I am extremely stressed out and depressed again. The psychiatrist said the drug should help with the depression in about a 3 or 4 weeks, but that it takes 8 to 12 weeks for it to really affect the obsessive thinking. Anyone have any feedback on how accurate this is? Also, after reading Alan's post about AD's vx BZD's for anxiety disorders, I'm wondering how likely the Lexapro is to help with the anxiety, or if I really need a Bzd. Also wondering if anyone has any comments on Lexapro (or another SSRI) and decision making. I have a terrible time making decisions, and then often think I've made the wrong one and torment myself with second-guessing.*** the dr's time-frame is an average for most ssri's...Lexapro work in 1-2 wks for most, a fair try would be 1 month...it does help w/ anxiety too, in 2 wks for most...again 1 month is a fair try to see if it works for you. As for the decision making...I dont know any significant differences of one AD over another, do you?
Posted by ANXIETY ANN on October 9, 2002, at 21:43:26
In reply to new on Lexpro...is alcohol a very bad mix?, posted by FunBunny on October 9, 2002, at 19:36:52
i don't think you should mix alcohol with all of those meds your taking. alcohol makes you depressed so your sort of defeating the purpose of lexapro. please be careful
Posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 21:46:46
In reply to Re: lexapro and blood pressure, posted by ANXIETY ANN on October 9, 2002, at 21:28:47
> does anyone know if lexapro affects blood pressure? i recently started taking meds for high blood pressure and then 2 wks later started taking lexapro. my blood pressure is still high but my doc says give the bp med time to work. thanks for the help
>
**** what bp med? I know that Lexapro has a very clean p450 system (where meds metabolize in the liver) does your med metabolize in the liver?
As far as bp being high...a new med in your body can do that til you adjust....my other product I carry is tiazac...a calcium channel blocker, I might be able to help you with info if you like.
Posted by Alan on October 9, 2002, at 21:53:18
In reply to Re: marijuana..tough one » Satori, posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 17:18:02
> Q:
> It seems to me (from this bulletin board and several others)that the preferred option of people suffering from anxiety for a long period seems to be to either take Xanax or another benzo daily, or on an as needed basis. Why is it then that most doctors seem to recommend ADs as the first (and many times only) choice for anxiety? It can't just be marketing by the pharmaceutical companies can it?
>
>
> A:
> Well, it isn't JUST marketing. The makers also performed unprecedented numbers of clinical trials (mostly outside the US) in order to get a handful that were complimentary. They couldn't afford to be satisfied with the first overwhelmingly negative results, as there was too much money already invested. So they persevered and persevered, gradually learning how to design studies with more favorable outcomes. They also changed some data and hid other studies away in company vaults where they weren't "found" until a decade later, and then only under court order.
>
> But yes, antidepressants do seem, according to the little independent research that exists, to be useful against anxiety in maybe 30-50% of cases. Still, it's no coincidence that most manufacturers don't provide data on SSRIs in anxiety that would allow actual percentage calculations to be made. They just say their med was so-and-so % much better than placebo.
>
> Meanwhile, benzodiazapines have proven for 40+ years to be at least 75% - 85% effective by conservative estimates with little side effect comparatively speaking. Plus they are usually added to take with an AD in the end anyway since AD's are most often overstimulating or do not provide adequate releif of symptoms as the anxiolytics do.
>
> You have to understand that the FDA has incestually high employment overlap, among its movers and shakers, with the industries that it regulates. In the pharmaceutical arena, it is common for someone who pushes through an approval at the FDA to then go work for the company that developed the approved product. The financial temptations are nearly irresistible.
>
> There's a rule of thumb in law enforcement that the more highly educated a person is, the more gullible he becomes. You get more Ph.D.s falling for street scams than people whose daily life is closer to the street. Doctors are no exception. They seldom imagine that a drug company would lie and cheat about the information shown to doctors, or that so many of the articles written about SSRIs have been ghost-written by pharmaceutical company hacks who then paid an "independent" MD to put his name on it, or that the respected MD who writes or speaks about a medication neglects to mention that he is earning not only some but the majority of his income from the drug company that makes the medication. They are amazed and outraged when individual cases get exposed, but they don't get it that this is business as usual in the pharmaceutical industry today.
>
>
> Pharmrep:
>
> Besides the "what's your source" company line, any comments? If you dispute it, what are YOUR sources?
>
============================================I guess that pharmrep is choosing not to answer some very important questions about AD's vis-a-vis their use in treatment of symptoms for anxiety disorders.
One would think that a pharmecutical representative would be more than willing to answer these fundamental questions for a very large population of us anxiety sufferers that tried ssri's for many years only to end up on the basic anxiolytic anyway - the lowly benzodiazapine. Or had to augment an ssri with a bzd in the end ....
Is that because there are really no legitimate medical answers as to why AD's are presently being promoted as the first line of treatment for the disorder - and not on equal footing with the Benzodiazapines???
Why is all of the evidence that the most effective and safe anxiolytic known to medicine - the bzd - brushed aside by the promoting of new AD's in their place rather than along side with the benzodiazapine to give the doctor and patient alike the freedom to choose? Otherwise, isn't freedom being taken away?
Would it have anything to do with putting profit before medicine to regain R & D and marketshare?
Not meant as just rhetorical questions. Sincerely and honestly wondering...
Alan
Posted by ANXIETY ANN on October 9, 2002, at 21:56:49
In reply to Re: lexapro and blood pressure » ANXIETY ANN, posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 21:46:46
parm rep thanks for responding to my question so fast. i am taking norvasc 5mg per day. also,when i take lexapro in AM i am like a zombie all day. but can't sleep at night. do you think i should take it PM and see if that helps. 4days at least my headache and stomach upset is not as bad. thanks for you input
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 9, 2002, at 22:11:04
In reply to Anxiety, depression, indecision, posted by Micki on October 9, 2002, at 21:13:21
Deciding between two loves is HUGE, can affect your entire life, and if you weren't doing major agonizing over it I would suspect SSRI-induced apathy. Our lives are crazed and our 'pathological reactions' are probably appropriate responses to a world gone mad. BTW, be glad you have two loves to choose between vs. none at all! ;o)
>I am currently in a state of extreme stress and anxiety over a situation in my love life--choosing which of two people to get involvoed with. I think about it constantly, think I've made a decision, then change my mind the next hour or day.
Posted by johnj on October 9, 2002, at 22:13:39
In reply to Re: Weird question for anyone concerning lexapro » johnj, posted by Satori on October 9, 2002, at 17:16:23
Hi,
I guess if I could talk to your boyfriend I would tell him how I stubbornly waited to get help because I thought it made me weak and it was embarrassing. However, as soon as I had a panic attack followed by depression I was glad to lay it all out to a doctor. The suffering that could be saved by coming clean is well worth it, although I don't know his total situation. The cool thing is my girlfriend and now wife was there for me and accepted it, I was the one that did and sometimes still does feel like I am weak for going on meds. If your boyfriend does excercise tell him to continue and make sure he eats right and stays away from caffeine. Caffeine is a no no for me. Hope this helps and he recovers soon. Take care
johnj
Posted by emmalie on October 9, 2002, at 22:15:12
In reply to Forest, posted by Mr.Scott on October 9, 2002, at 21:10:12
I have been taking 20 mg of Celexa (10 in the morning, 10 in the afternoon) for about a month. My psychiatrist just switched me to Lexapro. What is the equivalent dose of Lexapro to 20 mg of Celexa? I've heard 10 mg from some sources, and in 5 mg from others. Please advise!
Posted by emmalie on October 9, 2002, at 22:20:39
In reply to Re: Weird question for anyone concerning lexapro » Satori, posted by johnj on October 9, 2002, at 22:13:39
I have been taking 20 mg of Celexa (10 in the morning, 10 in the afternoon) for about a month. My psychiatrist just switched me to Lexapro. What is the equivalent dose of Lexapro to 20 mg of Celexa? I've heard 10 mg from some sources, and in 5 mg from others. Please advise!
Posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 22:22:18
In reply to Re: AD's vs. Bzds for Anxiety disorders » pharmrep, posted by Alan on October 9, 2002, at 21:53:18
> > Pharmrep:
> >
> > Besides the "what's your source" company line, any comments? If you dispute it, what are YOUR sources?
************** what i say is not "company" oriented...just from me. I give a "source" to lend credibility...so as not to be just my opinion. (after all, i did openly identify myself as pharmrep)
> ============================================
>
> I guess that pharmrep is choosing not to answer some very important questions about AD's vis-a-vis their use in treatment of symptoms for anxiety disorders.
>
> One would think that a pharmecutical representative would be more than willing to answer these fundamental questions for a very large population of us anxiety sufferers that tried ssri's for many years only to end up on the basic anxiolytic anyway - the lowly benzodiazapine. Or had to augment an ssri with a bzd in the end ....
>
> Is that because there are really no legitimate medical answers as to why AD's are presently being promoted as the first line of treatment for the disorder - and not on equal footing with the Benzodiazapines???
>
> Why is all of the evidence that the most effective and safe anxiolytic known to medicine - the bzd - brushed aside by the promoting of new AD's in their place rather than along side with the benzodiazapine to give the doctor and patient alike the freedom to choose? Otherwise, isn't freedom being taken away?
>
> Would it have anything to do with putting profit before medicine to regain R & D and marketshare?
>
> Not meant as just rhetorical questions. Sincerely and honestly wondering...
>
> Alan
>*** come on alan..if the pharm industry wanted to make money in bzds vs ad's it probably could...it just chooses to focus on ad's because there is more to work with, and more people to aim for...and i believe a proven track record for effectiveness...and why are you attacking me about it? I am here to help not hurt..so be civil
Posted by johnj on October 9, 2002, at 22:24:26
In reply to Anxiety, depression, indecision, posted by Micki on October 9, 2002, at 21:13:21
Hi Micki
I am also on pamelor(nortryptline) and my pdoc has given me lexapro and told me to take it and get stable on it before lowering my dose of pamelor. I have been on it for 10 years and the s/e are terrible, dry mouth, constipation, urinary retention, etc. What dose of pamelor are you on? Talk to your doc about how to switch the dose since 12 years is a long time! I also take a benzo, and have thought about monotherapy too. It is a tough decision and my pdoc says no. My pdoc didn't want me to lower the pamelor before the lexapro was working AND if it proves to be right for me. If it is not for me I would not have any AD in my system. You could be having some withdrawl symptoms from your lowrering of pamelor. I believe the dose should be lowered over a 2 to 4 week period. Please check all this out. Also, maybe the lack of decision making is just that....maybe you are not sure and that would definately give me some anxiety, which would be normal. take care
johnj
Posted by ANXIETY ANN on October 9, 2002, at 22:26:18
In reply to Re: Weird question for anyone concerning lexapro » Satori, posted by johnj on October 9, 2002, at 22:13:39
johnj-i think your attitude about meds is great. i also suffer from severe anxiety and panic attacks. i take xanax fot the attacks and adivan for anxiety. just started taking lexapro because docs want me off of bzs.do you take any BZs? how long have you been on lexapro and has it helped the anxiety? panic attacks ?
thanks for your input
Posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 22:27:22
In reply to Re: Forest, posted by emmalie on October 9, 2002, at 22:15:12
> I have been taking 20 mg of Celexa (10 in the morning, 10 in the afternoon) for about a month. My psychiatrist just switched me to Lexapro. What is the equivalent dose of Lexapro to 20 mg of Celexa? I've heard 10 mg from some sources, and in 5 mg from others. Please advise!
*** 10mg is the starting dose for lexapro. if you had side effects beyond comfortableness w/ celexa...then try 5mg of lexapro for a week, then go to 10mg.
Posted by johnj on October 9, 2002, at 22:36:23
In reply to Re: AD's vs. Bzds for Anxiety disorders » pharmrep, posted by Alan on October 9, 2002, at 21:53:18
HI Alan,
I guess benzo's are best for people with only anxiety disorders, but what about those of us with both? I can feel my benzo helps(tranzene) with anxiety, but it doesn't help with the depression. Sometimes it makes it worse or makes me stupid at times. I am on a TCA, benzo, lithium combo. If I could get on an ssri that would allow me to work out(my TCA screws me up after working out) I would gladly switch. But, I don't think I will ever go off my benzo completely. The guy who mangaes to make a great benzo med that helps with depression would make a fortune. Maybe lexapro will help me with both better than my current TCA. Even if it allowed me to get off the lithium I would be grateful.
Posted by shakingoscar on October 10, 2002, at 1:07:33
In reply to Re: I AM GOING BACK » shakingoscar, posted by pharmrep on October 9, 2002, at 16:26:09
Hi pharmrep,
I was having a bad day yesterday.. Im up and down at the moment like a yo-yo.But I took 15mg lex this morning and dont feel too bad..
Ive decided to give it another week.
No insult intended, but as far as I am concerned, switching to Lex just for sex s/e is VERY WORTHWHILE!!! heheheh
I think I am still adjusting to having dropped from 30mg to 15mg and experience with all the other ssri's does show me that it can take a couple of weeks to adjust to change. I was feeling so miserable yesterday though...
I'll stick with it.
Thanks for your post, much appreciated.
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