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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by IsoM on September 11, 2002, at 1:24:36
In reply to Re:Lexapro marketing (for everyone) » pharmrep, posted by alan on September 10, 2002, at 22:52:26
Alan, Celexa was first marketed in 1998. It took a number of years before that to develop & test it. Separation of racemic mixtures like citaprolam (Celexa) is a fairly new technology. There's more than one way of separating mixtures depending on what the compound is. It's still being finely honed to come up with cheaper ways of doing it. They could NOT have separated Celexa from the start as you suggest. Doesn't mean that drug companies aren't on the band wagon in a big way now, seeing it as a means to boost sales, but it's good to keep all information accurate.
An interesting story from Chemical & Engineering News on the marketing of racemic drugs & the interest by pharmaceutical companies.
Chiral Roundup - http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/8023/8023chiral.html
Posted by kid47 on September 11, 2002, at 10:59:52
In reply to Re: Fewer s/e with Lexapro - ?, posted by psycHarvard on September 6, 2002, at 23:35:03
>>Yes SSRIs do cause increased Anx in the first few weeks... that is why a lot of psycs now start
there pats off on an SSRI and Wellbutrin... in combination for a few weeks...<<I'm curious. Are you implying that the addition of Wellb to an SSRI will help REDUCE anxiety? This is certainly contrary to my experience.
Posted by Mr.Scott on September 11, 2002, at 11:31:47
In reply to Re:Lexapro marketing (for everyone) » pharmrep, posted by alan on September 10, 2002, at 22:52:26
For some reason people think a depressed son/author and an early release of Lexapro before the U.S. Patent is up on Celexa is something noteworthy. IT'S NOT.
Forest has marketing rights to Celexa only in the U.S.. Only U.S. scripts result in Forest dollars. Also Celexa is no Zoloft or Prozac or even Paxil with regards to revenue here. With Lexapro on the other hand Forest will make dollars from all scripts in the entire world, and have a shot at getting scripts by pushing the "something new BS". It's not really anything new for depressives to be concerned with.
Posted by moxy1000 on September 11, 2002, at 16:46:23
In reply to Re:Lexapro marketing (for everyone) » pharmrep, posted by alan on September 10, 2002, at 22:52:26
I think that's incorrect. Isomer science was only developed in 1998 - the guy that figured out how to single out one isomer of a racemic mixture actually won the noble prize for chemistry that year. Forest started looking into developing Celexa into an isomer at that point - and just recently was Lexapro ready for approval. To say they knew about it all along is in part true - they knew there was potential in developing Celexa into a single isomer. But, they couldn't do it overnight - it took almost five years to get the R&D done and get the drug to market.
Also, the difference b/w lexapro and celexa is not quite as simple as was stated. If Lexapro were truly HALF of Celexa, then to carry that theory forward, 10mg of Lexapro would be equal to 20mg of Celexa. That's not the case - 10mg Lex = 40mg Celexa.
And also, there will be no generic versions of Celexa until probably 2005, so this wasn't released due to a patent emergency.
Posted by Phil on September 11, 2002, at 18:24:25
In reply to Re:Lexapro marketing (for everyone) » alan, posted by Mr.Scott on September 11, 2002, at 11:31:47
>
>
> For some reason people think a depressed son/author and an early release of Lexapro before the U.S. Patent is up on Celexa is something noteworthy. IT'S NOT.>>>Personally, I'm glad it's on the market for whatever reason. If they make money legally by producing meds that can potentially save my ass, I don't care what their motivations are.
Personally, the biggest BS w/ drug companies is charging more in the US than anywhere else.>
> Forest has marketing rights to Celexa only in the U.S.. Only U.S. scripts result in Forest dollars. Also Celexa is no Zoloft or Prozac or even Paxil with regards to revenue here. With Lexapro on the other hand Forest will make dollars from all scripts in the entire world, and have a shot at getting scripts by pushing the "something new BS". It's not really anything new for depressives to be concerned with.>>>What's not anything new for me not to be concerned with? How do you judge who needs to be concerned with what?
So they make money worldwide. Lundbeck is a company that only makes CNS drugs. Forest put $158,000,000.00 back into research last year.
I'm taking Lexapro and glad that I'm able to get it. Judging from a very short trial, it could be an excellent drug and it has more selling points than *new*.
Posted by hawkeye on September 11, 2002, at 20:06:09
In reply to Re: Fewer s/e with Lexapro - where's the evidence?, posted by Phil on September 6, 2002, at 8:27:35
Hi. I have been taking 10mg/day of Lexapro since last Friday.
Here's the result: 110% COMPLETE/TOTAL SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In my experience it's WORSE than Celexa and the worst in this regard of any other drug I have taken.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have taken Celexa but stopped due to "unacceptable side-efects" , i.e., sexual dysfunction. But with Celexa at 20mg, although there was some, it wasn't total.
My advice: Unless you are a eunuch, forget about this drug.
Posted by Phil on September 11, 2002, at 21:53:06
In reply to LEXAPRO -- USER REPORT -- BAD NEWS, posted by hawkeye on September 11, 2002, at 20:06:09
Well , if it gets me too I'll save it for the cat.
pharmrep's theory that the #'s are high because more people are willing to talk about sex than they were 4 years ago never impressed me but we're all different..we'll see.Sorry Lexapro has killed men's most important organ, hawkeye. That's bad news-that's what Zoloft did to me.
Let's hope it's not going to affect everybody.
Posted by johnj on September 11, 2002, at 23:03:40
In reply to LEXAPRO -- USER REPORT -- BAD NEWS, posted by hawkeye on September 11, 2002, at 20:06:09
PLEASE elaborate on sexual dysfunction. Do you mean no desire? No erection? No ability to orgasm? thanks
johnj
Posted by dr. dave on September 12, 2002, at 3:51:15
In reply to Re:Lexapro marketing (for everyone), posted by moxy1000 on September 11, 2002, at 16:46:23
Isomer science has been known about for a lot, lot longer than that, and Sanchez published a paper demonstrating
s-citalopram was the active isomer of citalopram in 1992. It seems that the s-isomer was patented in the US in 1990, according to this article.http://www.current-drugs.com/CDD/CDD/CDDPDF/NEWS_ANTIDEPRESSANT_HEIR.pdf
What has happened recently is that new technology has allowed separation of stereoisomers to become financially viable - a fantastic thing in general, but of debatable benefit in the case of citalopram.
> I think that's incorrect. Isomer science was only developed in 1998 - the guy that figured out how to single out one isomer of a racemic mixture actually won the noble prize for chemistry that year. Forest started looking into developing Celexa into an isomer at that point - and just recently was Lexapro ready for approval. To say they knew about it all along is in part true - they knew there was potential in developing Celexa into a single isomer. But, they couldn't do it overnight - it took almost five years to get the R&D done and get the drug to market.
>
> Also, the difference b/w lexapro and celexa is not quite as simple as was stated. If Lexapro were truly HALF of Celexa, then to carry that theory forward, 10mg of Lexapro would be equal to 20mg of Celexa. That's not the case - 10mg Lex = 40mg Celexa.
>
> And also, there will be no generic versions of Celexa until probably 2005, so this wasn't released due to a patent emergency.
Posted by Phil on September 12, 2002, at 6:25:19
In reply to LEXAPRO -- USER REPORT -- BAD NEWS, posted by hawkeye on September 11, 2002, at 20:06:09
Got a feeling that it may be closing down shop with me too. After too many years on these drugs it's showing early signs of numbness and well, numbness. I'll give it a fair run but I won't go back to this SE. Patience, damnit.
P
h
i
l
Posted by hawkeye on September 12, 2002, at 7:32:50
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO -- USER REPORT -- BAD NEWS » hawkeye, posted by johnj on September 11, 2002, at 23:03:40
"PLEASE elaborate on sexual dysfunction. Do you mean no desire? No erection? No ability to orgasm?"
ALL OF THE ABOVE
TOTAL WIPEOUT
Posted by sjb on September 13, 2002, at 9:11:12
In reply to Re: Fewer s/e with Lexapro - where's the evidence?, posted by moxy1000 on September 9, 2002, at 22:49:59
You know, I really wish we had more long term studies. My experience, along with many others, proves a BIG difference in the first 6 weeks of treatment, and how one does after months (or years) on the same drug. I know it's expensive, etc, but remember when we heard that Prozac suppresses apetite? Many found this affect short lived and actually could lead to weight gain in the long run. I also caution folks on this board turning to Topomax for weight loss, as I believe that this, too, is short lived for some people.
Posted by Geezer on September 13, 2002, at 10:45:32
In reply to Re: Fewer s/e with Lexapro - where's the evidence?, posted by sjb on September 13, 2002, at 9:11:12
>Hi sjb,
Very good point. The only drug studies carried on over a prolonged period of time, with significant numbers of participants, are conducted in Europe - the results are not admissible here in the US.
I had the experience of weight gain with Prozac (25 lbs over 4 years), D/Ced Prozac at 60mg. (cold turkey with no withdrawal). In a later trial of Remeron 30mg. + Depakote 1000 I only gained 10lbs (quit cold turky no withdrawal). Yet a later trial of Zoloft 200mg., no weight gain or loss and no withdrawal. I recently added Serzone 250 to Wellbutrin 400 and have lost 10 in three weeks (no gain or loss on Wellbutrin - only when Serzone was added).
The real point is I have TRD and would welcome any kind of relief from depression. I am not real concerned about side affects because I don't have any that are sever, probably because nothing works. I think real answers about side effects and efficacy will only come when we have true emperical testing (genetic markers, blood tests, and intracellular ADs). I know current meds. work well for most people, also believe the rest of us make up that 15% mortality figure every year. We get tired of rolling the dice for no benefit.
Prozac was the only AD that ever gave relief but pooped out.
Best of luck,
Geezer
You know, I really wish we had more long term studies. My experience, along with many others, proves a BIG difference in the first 6 weeks of treatment, and how one does after months (or years) on the same drug. I know it's expensive, etc, but remember when we heard that Prozac suppresses apetite? Many found this affect short lived and actually could lead to weight gain in the long run. I also caution folks on this board turning to Topomax for weight loss, as I believe that this, too, is short lived for some people.
Posted by pharmrep on September 14, 2002, at 9:57:47
In reply to LEXAPRO -- USER REPORT -- BAD NEWS, posted by hawkeye on September 11, 2002, at 20:06:09
> Hi. I have been taking 10mg/day of Lexapro since last Friday.
>
> Here's the result: 110% COMPLETE/TOTAL SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> In my experience it's WORSE than Celexa and the worst in this regard of any other drug I have taken.
>
> As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have taken Celexa but stopped due to "unacceptable side-efects" , i.e., sexual dysfunction. But with Celexa at 20mg, although there was some, it wasn't total.
>
** sorry to hear initial results...I know many people respond differently, but can you tell me how you have done with other AD's in their 1st week of use? Many side effects lessen after a few weeks for people, how do they do for you? Is Lexapro treating the depression?...are you going to discontinue already, or can you stick with it a while longer?
Posted by Mystia on September 15, 2002, at 12:03:34
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO » hawkeye, posted by pharmrep on September 14, 2002, at 9:57:47
I just started taking Lexapro on 9-13-02, after stopping Paxil on my own about a month ago. I suffer from severe migraines and I have had them every time after taking the Lexapro (I usually only have 1-2 migraines/week). Anyone had similar problems? Also does anyone know anything you shouldn't take (esp. herbs) while taking Lexapro?
Posted by hawkeye on September 15, 2002, at 12:55:06
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO » hawkeye, posted by pharmrep on September 14, 2002, at 9:57:47
I have only taken three "modern" ADs for any length of time: Prozac - 3 years; Serzone - 2 years; Celexa - 6 months. I never had any serious side effects with Prozac or Serzone so my experience with them is not instructive here.
I was taking 20mg/day of Celexa. Celexa is one of the few drugs that has worked very well for me. It is one of the few drugs I could actually feel. I wasn't able to take 40 mg of Celexa because of the degree of sexual dysfunction that it caused. At 20mg the SD was present to a degree but it was almost tolerable. But at some point I decided that I couldn't accept even the partial sexual dysfunction that it caused and I stopped it.
Many years ago, I took a tri-cyclic that caused sexual dysfunction. (I don't recall the name-it might have been imipramine, but I am not sure). In that case the sexual dysfunction eventually went away, but this was after several months.
Sexual dysfunction is a side-effect that I now find totally unacceptable. Two other drugs that have caused it for me are Zoloft and Effexor. But with these drugs the onset was not as quick as it has been with Lexapro. In both of those cases I stopped within two weeks of starting them.
Because of the hype and relatively low dosage of Lexapro I was taking, I was not expecting any major problems/side effects. The immediate, sudden onset and totality of the sexual dysfunction was an unpleasant surprise. I was taking 10mgs/day. Correct me if I am wrong, I am under the understanding that 10 mg is the functional equivalent of 20 mg of Celexa. I should note that I am also taking 200mg/day of Lamictal which I have been taking for several months and which has never caused me any sexual problems.
I feel that even after just one week I was getting positive benefits from the Lexapro. I even continued to take it for a couple of more days after my last post before I stopped it. Normal sexual function restored after two days of cessation. Needless to say this has been a disapointment for me. I know Celeza/Lexapro works for me. I am considering continuing with 5mg of Lexapro. If I do I will let you all know. I am not certain that taking less than the recommended therapeutic dose would be worth it.
Posted by pharmrep on September 15, 2002, at 15:39:34
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO hawkeye, posted by hawkeye on September 15, 2002, at 12:55:06
10mg of lex has shown to be at least as effective as 40mg of celexa. I know that 10mg of lex is supposed to have less s/e than 40mg of celexa as well, but as you know..everyone is different...even though 5mg of lex has not been studied...it would seem that your sensitivity would suggest trying that. good luck.
Posted by Phil on September 15, 2002, at 15:40:06
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO hawkeye, posted by hawkeye on September 15, 2002, at 12:55:06
Go to 5mg and work up. Low and slow used to be buzz words here. Try and give it four weeks. If you stop in 2 or 3 weeks, you'll be cycling thru drugs and not find the right one.
Posted by pharmrep on September 15, 2002, at 15:45:19
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO, posted by Mystia on September 15, 2002, at 12:03:34
> I just started taking Lexapro on 9-13-02, after stopping Paxil on my own about a month ago. I suffer from severe migraines and I have had them every time after taking the Lexapro (I usually only have 1-2 migraines/week). Anyone had similar problems? Also does anyone know anything you shouldn't take (esp. herbs) while taking Lexapro?
** I dont know your history, but I have heard that with Paxil, the discontinuation s/e can include headaches (among other s/e's) and for awhile...perhaps the 1 month off is not enough time yet? Anyway...Celexa didnt cause much in the headache dept and Lexapro is supposed to be less...however as you know...everybody responds differently. I dont know about the herbs..but will check on add-ons for the headaches. good luck
Posted by Mystia on September 15, 2002, at 19:18:37
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO hawkeye » hawkeye, posted by Phil on September 15, 2002, at 15:40:06
Thanks for everyone's posts! I have been through so many meds (Prozac, Xanax, Serzone, Geodon, Paxil, Wellbutrin) with no success. Some of the meds brought about severe s/e (the Serzone required an ER visit and caused irregular heartbeat) while some were not as bad. The Geodon caused terrible heartburn and now I have been diagnosed with GURD. I am not sure if the Geodon triggered the GURD or if I had the heartburn because of the undiagnosed GURD. The Prozac made my symptoms become worse instead of better.
I had never tried Celexa, but my doc is a big fan of it. He had originally planned to prescribe Zoloft since my mom does well on it. Then he remembered he had gotten new samples of Lexapro and told me I could benefit. So now I am on Lexapro! I am just trying to find something, ANYTHING that works for me. I'm only 18 and I have been looking for the right med for 6 years. Prozac was the first I tried and it was awful.
In any case, I'm very happy I found this website (I was searching for more info on Lexapro) and I will continue to post and check back! Thanks everyone!
Posted by Mystia on September 15, 2002, at 19:23:26
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO, posted by Mystia on September 15, 2002, at 19:18:37
Now that I think of it, this might have something to do with my problems. I am taking Nexium also. I started taking it the same day I started Lexapro.
Also, I didn't have the migraines after I stopped Paxil UNTIL I started the Lexapro and Nexium. So, it's just been the last 3 days. I take Fioricet for my migraines but it hasn't been helping much these last few days.
Posted by winger on September 15, 2002, at 20:16:05
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO hawkeye » hawkeye, posted by Phil on September 15, 2002, at 15:40:06
> Go to 5mg and work up. Low and slow used to be buzz words here. Try and give it four weeks. If you stop in 2 or 3 weeks, you'll be cycling thru drugs and not find the right one.
I'm very sensitive to the SSRI's, and usually have good results on a far smaller dose than is recomended... try the 5mg.. I get results from just 10 MG of zoloft....
Posted by winger on September 15, 2002, at 20:20:48
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO (I forgot some things), posted by Mystia on September 15, 2002, at 19:23:26
> Now that I think of it, this might have something to do with my problems. I am taking Nexium also. I started taking it the same day I started Lexapro.
> Also, I didn't have the migraines after I stopped Paxil UNTIL I started the Lexapro and Nexium. So, it's just been the last 3 days. I take Fioricet for my migraines but it hasn't been helping much these last few days.I take nexium, headaches, anxiety, and abdominal pain are all side effects possible from nexium.. and be careful, some stomache drugs cause your body to build up more of the drug you are taking... I know that zantac is bad about that... maybe try laying off the nexium for a day or two, or ask your doctor to give you some prilosec... I had better luck with it... and the dosage is smaller... good luck!!
Posted by reifiedbeans on September 16, 2002, at 13:43:56
In reply to LEXAPRO -- USER REPORT -- BAD NEWS, posted by hawkeye on September 11, 2002, at 20:06:09
> Hi. I have been taking 10mg/day of Lexapro since last Friday.
>
> Here's the result: 110% COMPLETE/TOTAL SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> In my experience it's WORSE than Celexa and the worst in this regard of any other drug I have taken.
>
> As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have taken Celexa but stopped due to "unacceptable side-efects" , i.e., sexual dysfunction. But with Celexa at 20mg, although there was some, it wasn't total.
>
> My advice: Unless you are a eunuch, forget about this drug.You are an idiot. I've had no problems with Lexapro. Your experiences in no way can be extrapolated to everyone else.
My subjective experience has been that Lexapro produces fewer s/e or AEs than any other antidepressant I've tried, including Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, and Wellbutrin.
So far, I've had no sexual side effects (delayed ejac, anorgasmia) and no sleepiness or fatigue. Way better than Zoloft (which produced all of the above and was the last drug I was taking before Lexapro).
Posted by emf on September 16, 2002, at 14:14:28
In reply to Re: LEXAPRO, posted by Mystia on September 15, 2002, at 12:03:34
I have a question. I began Lexapro (10mg) and in just one day I started to feel a buzz. I am not screaming at my children anymore, nor am I getting anxiety. However, I feel a little "lobotomized" in that I've become a little bland in my personality. I am usually very upbeat and exciteable. I'm wondering if I should take only 5 mg/day instead. What do you think? I was on Zoloft a couple years ago, and although it didn't give me quite the "buzz" Lexapro has, Zoloft gave me complete and total sexual dysfunction, not to mention cognitive deficiencies (I'd mix my words and have trouble reading other words). Any women out there suffering from anorgasmia on Lexapro?
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